JK Final Details

[awk]

For my next event, I'm going to post the details only on Tiktok.

Fair enough, but given the age profile of our sport, don't expect anybody to be there!

[awk]

For my next event, I'm going to post the details only on Tiktok.

Fair enough, but given the demography of our sport, don't expect anybody to be there!

[ianandmonika]

Re the MTB tracks on the JK Middleton Park map, mapper Chris Burden followed advice from me. I agreed the MTB symbol with Map Group members some time ago but it has still to be formally agreed and issued. Map Group was to consider applying to the IOF Map Group for it to be included in IOF symbols for designated MTBs. I initiated this discussion as:-
a) on an international Orienteering Mappers facebook page there are regular requests from other countries mappers for such a symbol
b) in updating a POC map there were parallel footpaths and MTBs using the same footpath symbol and I thought this was extremely dangerous for people using the POC. Sheffield also has many areas with prepared MTBs so I needed such a symbol.
The symbol used is similar to that occasionally used by other clubs, including AIRE.
The symbol was not used at Wharncliffe as the MTBs there are not specially prepared but more in the nature of normal small paths and tend to be in a couple of areas that courses avoided.

[buzz]

Getting back to the final details (awesome job by the way Dom).

What do folk think about having printed boolets provided for all competitors at the event? (I think that was the case this year).

They were beautifully created but I'm not sure particularly useful and certainly incurred a financial and environmental cost which might have been saved.

Would be interested to hear how many were printed and how many left over after the event, although I guess many would have taken them as a souvenir regrdless of their utility.

Perhaps a printable version available online and printed by the organiser on request for the few who need it would be more appropriate?

[awk]

Re the MTB tracks on the JK Middleton Park map, mapper Chris Burden followed advice from me. I agreed the MTB symbol with Map Group members some time ago but it has still to be formally agreed and issued....

I didn't run at Wharnecliff, so can't comment on how the symbol worked there, but, whilst a great idea, it didn't really work for me as presented at Middleton. Feedback from a number of others (mainly but not solely in my club) was similar. I think the problem may have been that the print was generally darker than it had been at earlier events this weekend, and the purple didn't show up as sufficiently different to the green and brown: one or two people mistook it for a contour (where I crossed it, it was very proximate to a contour line anyway). I did wonder why the track I was crossing was only a path on the ground...!
That may be tied in with the fact that I, and mostly same others, had problems with the purple print full stop today. Comparing with Tankersley, it was completely different, much darker, thinner lines, and far harder to pick out, especially in the more overcast conditions. Took me ages to find my no. 1 on the map! I had to magnify the control descriptions too to read the numbers on the run.
I hasten to add this should take nothing away from the event, which my club contingent enjoyed enormously - merely my feedback on the technical point. Hope it helps.

[pete.owens]

There already is a standard ISOM symbol for routes that may be crossed, but must not be followed (ie the conditions that applied today): Purple Xs. The non-standard symbol used is very similar to an index contour.

The overprint appeared to use smaller circles and much thinner lines than standard specification. And the CDs where at the the absolute minimum.

[ianandmonika]

Thanks for the feedback on the MTB trails. Purple X's for MTB trails tend to be too prominent, particularly where there are many trails, and do not work for me. Need to relook at the symbol composition.
Interesting comments about the map colours. The map colour chart for Wharncliffe and Middleton was the same and the printing was by the same printer on the same waterproof paper. I cannot comment on whether the planning software used caused issues with the overprint.

[NeilC]

Thanks for the feedback on the MTB trails. Purple X's for MTB trails tend to be too prominent, particularly where there are many trails, and do not work for me. Need to relook at the symbol composition.

I never spotted these trails on the map but looking at my map in the cold light of day I see that I ran 10m along one (feel free to DSQ me). What is the purpose of the new symbol? The MTB track I crossed looked like a normal track to me. If the intention is to indicate that it can't be run along then perhaps the best approach is to use smaller crosses and stick to a symbol that more people are likely to understand. Probably best as an overprint symbol so that the mapper doesn't have to decide whether the track can be run along or not, or indeed whether it is a MTB track or a normal one.

[NeilC]

What do folk think about having printed boolets provided for all competitors at the event?

I liked it but would have been perfectly happy to press a button on the website to generate a PDF to print at home. I still like to have a printed version but we only needed one for the family and I suspect that many copies were left over.

[King Penguin]

Likewise never saw the MTB tracks on the Middleton map until back home. I agree red Xs would have been too much clutter. Also found the red lines & circles much harder to spot on Middleton; took ages to find the start on the map even though I knew which open we were in and which way we were crossing it.
A bit disappointed with my variant of Relay course G M165+ where I used the same path and footbridge 3 times on the first 3 legs.

[Snail]

Sorting out a standard symbol for MTB tracks, both crossable and not-to-be-crossed, seems like a good idea: probably one for the IOF. In the UK I have seen a number of variants: standard purple X overprints (which as others have said don't always work in complex areas of multiple paths), tracks mapped purely in purple (thinner than a "Do not cross" overprint) and a purple outline to a black track symbol like at Middleton, with the purple either continuous or intermittent. As someone said, perhaps smaller closer purple Xs would work.

[Snail]

...Interesting comments about the map colours. The map colour chart for Wharncliffe and Middleton was the same and the printing was by the same printer on the same waterproof paper. I cannot comment on whether the planning software used caused issues with the overprint.

I don't know enough about the technical side of printing to understand what might make a difference. May be worth finding out and sharing what the planners used? Different software? Different settings in the same software? Generating pdfs and printing from those? Using a pdf as a background to the software rather than an ocd/oom map directly? Etc

[Snail]

What do folk think about having printed boolets provided for all competitors at the event?

I liked it but would have been perfectly happy to press a button on the website to generate a PDF to print at home. I still like to have a printed version but we only needed one for the family and I suspect that many copies were left over.

+1. Being able easily to generate a single pdf means you can have it available offline (either printed or soft-copy) anywhere (not just the event site) that has a limited mobile signal.

I can see that the website approach used this year, with everything broken down, might make it easier for day organisers etc to update just their details, but it perhaps does a dis-service to event sponsors, landowners etc. Although the individual day pages had sponsor logos I suspect that the fuller details on the sponsors page will have had far fewer hits. In a more traditional Final Details pdf some people will still skip over them, but others are more likely to read them in passing.

[Excelman]

I'd vote for a final details booklet that I can print myself, with maybe the option of some pre-printed to collect at the event. That way I can have a copy to peruse in the days before. All the information is usually on the relevant website, but a printed copy has advantages in terms of readability.

[timsmith]

What do folk think about having printed boolets provided for all competitors at the event?

I liked it but would have been perfectly happy to press a button on the website to generate a PDF to print at home. I still like to have a printed version but we only needed one for the family and I suspect that many copies were left over.

First of all, this was one of the best multi-day events I have attended. The organisation and communication was top notch. The courses were well matched to excellent areas and really showcased the differences between the sprint/middle/long disciplines. The arenas were laid out to millimetre precision and were easy to navigate, with a strong feel of a large scale event that was still social and friendly.

So I hope that future organisers can carry forward all the excellent work, and that this thread suggests some very minor improvements on top.

I am very happy to read event details online: I am most likely to read them on a large screen in advance, then refer back to them on the phone to check details. But I do like a printed copy, particularly for multi-day events where there is lots of information for the whole family to consume. As it happened, our hotel had terrible WiFI and no mobile service. When I arrive at the field, I would prefer to put my phone away, both for security and to fully enjoy the event. It's better for my children not to have the distraction of a phone in their hand. And for quick checks 'was it the East or West start for each of us?', it's just faster to glance at a paper copy.

I did not print the details from the website since the booklet was available, but I just took a look at exporting to a PDF and it seems pretty well laid out to print without any special CSS. I could have printed General Info (or just written down the key points from that section) then printed the info for each race day I needed. Printing back-to-back, two pages per sheet I could have fitted each race day on 2x A4 sheets. The best thing a website editor could do is to ensure that the print export maximises use of available space (for example, hide the right-hand table of contents when printing so the full width is used).

I thought the WhatsApp announcement messages were ideal for 'don't forget' posts, and better than any website or printed option for the same info. Finally, the website and printed information was well organised to remove any duplication across days, which has been a problem at some multi-day events in the past.