+1 on event clashes.
The practices (rules? guidelines?) about avoiding clashes could / should just be dropped. Most clubs are sensible enough not to schedule an event that is likely to suffer in attendance from something already in the fixture list within x miles away. (And x probably varies with area and event level: for some parts of the country it might be 50 miles, elsewhere 150).
If a level A / B event isn't strong enough by itself not to need fixture protection, it probably doesn't deserve it!
Age profile
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Re: Age profile
Snail wrote:+1 on event clashes.
The practices (rules? guidelines?) about avoiding clashes could / should just be dropped. Most clubs are sensible enough not to schedule an event that is likely to suffer in attendance from something already in the fixture list within x miles away. (And x probably varies with area and event level: for some parts of the country it might be 50 miles, elsewhere 150).
If a level A / B event isn't strong enough by itself not to need fixture protection, it probably doesn't deserve it!
I wouldn't go as far as you suggest. e.g. what if someone in Scotland thinks it is worth organising a Scottish championship (level B) event the same weekend as the British Champs / JK? Or a club that hasn't qualified for the CSC Final (level A) decides to organise a significant league event (level C) that weekend knowing their biggest rivals are not available. Some formal coordination of the diary makes sense. That doesn't mean you can't have a level D event anywhere in the country on the major weekends though (I don't think the current guidance even suggests that). Cooperation probably matters as much at a local level. E.g. there are 4? clubs in Edinburgh. It doesn't make sense for them all to be fighting over the same weekends - but actually a bit if "you do the Sat, we'll do the Sun" may make it easier for people who are travelling to come to both rather than two consecutive weekends etc.
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Re: Age profile
Atomic wrote:Snail wrote:+1 on event clashes.
The practices (rules? guidelines?) about avoiding clashes could / should just be dropped. Most clubs are sensible enough not to schedule an event that is likely to suffer in attendance from something already in the fixture list within x miles away. (And x probably varies with area and event level: for some parts of the country it might be 50 miles, elsewhere 150).
If a level A / B event isn't strong enough by itself not to need fixture protection, it probably doesn't deserve it!
I wouldn't go as far as you suggest. e.g. what if someone in Scotland thinks it is worth organising a Scottish championship (level B) event the same weekend as the British Champs / JK? Or a club that hasn't qualified for the CSC Final (level A) decides to organise a significant league event (level C) that weekend knowing their biggest rivals are not available. Some formal coordination of the diary makes sense. That doesn't mean you can't have a level D event anywhere in the country on the major weekends though (I don't think the current guidance even suggests that). Cooperation probably matters as much at a local level. E.g. there are 4? clubs in Edinburgh. It doesn't make sense for them all to be fighting over the same weekends - but actually a bit if "you do the Sat, we'll do the Sun" may make it easier for people who are travelling to come to both rather than two consecutive weekends etc.
This is already done! We even coordinate with local clubs on the evenings when we hold our local events to some extent (as best as we can).
The issue with organising events at the same time as the JK/British Champs etc is more likely down to the fact that the people who would run the events are at the JK/British Champs....
I would have organised a little local event this coming easter weekend if I weren't at the JK and I'm only going to that as I'm helping to control the relays.
- rf_fozzy
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Re: Age profile
Indeed, if you look at the BOF results list for 25th March there are 6 local events on the day of the British Champs - and that is just those clubs that upload results for local events.
- pete.owens
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Re: Age profile
There are 0 orienteering events in mainland GB at the same time as the 4 JK events this weekend*.
I suspect with the British Champs date moving around, there isn't the same effect. A club event planning committee might think like this
"Easter for an event. Of course not. It's the JK weekend."
Some of this is of course because it is perceived to be harder to get an organiser, but also I suspect it's about maximizing income and turnout. With half the likely competitors away at the JK turnout will be half of course. But a smaller event is easier for a new organiser. 20 or 30 might instead of 50 or 60 seem like a poor turnout, but that's a nice manageable number and makes it easier to do meet and greet for newbies etc.
The fact that there are 6 events on at the same day as the British Champs means we should do at least that number on the JK weekend - the perfect weekend (re vegetation and climate) to go orienteering.
* according to the BO events list.
I suspect with the British Champs date moving around, there isn't the same effect. A club event planning committee might think like this
"Easter for an event. Of course not. It's the JK weekend."
Some of this is of course because it is perceived to be harder to get an organiser, but also I suspect it's about maximizing income and turnout. With half the likely competitors away at the JK turnout will be half of course. But a smaller event is easier for a new organiser. 20 or 30 might instead of 50 or 60 seem like a poor turnout, but that's a nice manageable number and makes it easier to do meet and greet for newbies etc.
The fact that there are 6 events on at the same day as the British Champs means we should do at least that number on the JK weekend - the perfect weekend (re vegetation and climate) to go orienteering.
* according to the BO events list.
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Re: Age profile
Have you considered that folk who are not sufficiently dedicated orienteers to be at the JK might have other things they might want to be doing than organising events on a holiday weekend, especially one that comes slap in the middle of the school break? For example, all three of my close neighbours who have kids are away for the week - there's a reason there are always loads of news stories about travel disruption at this time.
Orienteering has a shortage of volunteers, especially new ones, so it seems perverse to berate clubs for not using up that resource for what will clearly be a much lower return than usual. Also, you appear to imply that it is ideal for inexperienced organisers to be the ones introducing newcomers to the sport - I couldn't disagree more.
Patrick
PS: All that said, I should point out that Tayside Orienteers have traditionally held a Not The JK event on Easter Sunday in years where the JK is fairly far south - obviously not this year. It has often been pretty well attended (as last year), but is generally a decent quality colour coded held on a decent quality area with experienced officials. I think it is perfectly reasonable that (eg) clubs in the far south could do something similar this year...perhaps you should speak to your own club first to see why they aren't!
Orienteering has a shortage of volunteers, especially new ones, so it seems perverse to berate clubs for not using up that resource for what will clearly be a much lower return than usual. Also, you appear to imply that it is ideal for inexperienced organisers to be the ones introducing newcomers to the sport - I couldn't disagree more.
Patrick
PS: All that said, I should point out that Tayside Orienteers have traditionally held a Not The JK event on Easter Sunday in years where the JK is fairly far south - obviously not this year. It has often been pretty well attended (as last year), but is generally a decent quality colour coded held on a decent quality area with experienced officials. I think it is perfectly reasonable that (eg) clubs in the far south could do something similar this year...perhaps you should speak to your own club first to see why they aren't!
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Re: Age profile
Snail wrote:+1 on event clashes.
The practices (rules? guidelines?) about avoiding clashes could / should just be dropped. Most clubs are sensible enough not to schedule an event that is likely to suffer in attendance from something already in the fixture list within x miles away. (And x probably varies with area and event level: for some parts of the country it might be 50 miles, elsewhere 150).
If a level A / B event isn't strong enough by itself not to need fixture protection, it probably doesn't deserve it!
I am reading the calendar that an outer London club is placing a level D event on the same day in inner London (13 km NE of Charing Cross) with another level C event held by an inner London club just outside London in the commuter area (36 km SW of Charing Cross), with the events 46 km apart from the other.
As a result I will have to sacrifice a chance in doing orienteering in inner London because a higher level event exists in the same metropolitan area on the same day. The clubs are definitely not sensible enough in this circumstance!.
Atomic wrote:I 100% agree. It would be like not having a park run on the day of the London Marathon / Great North Run etc.It's not a clash because it's a different market.
But a park run in London on the day of the London Marathon is not a different market!
- miklcct
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Re: Age profile
miklcct wrote:
I am reading the calendar that an outer London club is placing a level D event on the same day in inner London (13 km NE of Charing Cross) with another level C event held by an inner London club just outside London in the commuter area (36 km SW of Charing Cross), with the events 46 km apart from the other.
As a result I will have to sacrifice a chance in doing orienteering in inner London because a higher level event exists in the same metropolitan area on the same day. The clubs are definitely not sensible enough in this circumstance!.
Assuming you're talking about the 8th October. As those two events are probably 75 minutes traveling (road) time away from each other, I wouldn't treat them as a clash. They're likely to serve different markets from diagonally opposite parts of London. The Surrey hills isn't really London, and that event has a 250 competitor limit.
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