According to nimblefins.co.uk via a random google, the typical cost per mile for car travel is now 47p, meaning that a car trip to a regional could be costing ca £100.
Given that everyone is facing increases in bills we have to pay (heating, food etc) will next season's orienteering events, especially regionals, become victim to discretionary spending cutbacks, as cutting back on weekend trips is one of the easier ways of saving money?
Are clubs planning for this? Eg planning for a lower than expected turnout or initiatives to encourage car sharing.
(noted the excellent STAG example:https://www.stag-orienteering.co.uk/news/again-stag-lead-by-example)
Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
SeanC wrote:According to nimblefins.co.uk via a random google, the typical cost per mile for car travel is now 47p,
It depends how you do your calculations. I think this takes many elements into account incl. MOT, insurance, road tax, servicing etc. as well as fuel and maybe even depreciation / purchase / lease.
If you take the view that you will have a car anyway (as I do), then MOT, insurance, road tax etc. are fixed "sunk" costs which are spent whether or not you travel to an event.
The variable costs are really fuel, a factor for servicing assuming it is done evey x,000 miles, wear and tear on tyres, exhaust, engine etc.
I don't have figures for individual components, but calculating for fuel only :
Assume £2.00 per litre = £9.00 per gallon (around us it's less than that again now)
At 50 miles per gallon = 18p / mile
At 40 miles per gallon = 22.5p / mile
If you calculate on this basis, a full car is cheaper than train, and a car is often cheaper than train even with only 1 person.
I agree train is greener, as it is running anyway (or not, given strikes, shortage of staff, engineering, hot weather, leaves on the line etc.)
In theory a mass transportation system should be cheaper than individual (economies of scale) but it often does not seem to work out that way.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
King Penguin wrote:SeanC wrote:According to nimblefins.co.uk via a random google, the typical cost per mile for car travel is now 47p,
It depends how you do your calculations. I think this takes many elements into account incl. MOT, insurance, road tax, servicing etc. as well as fuel and maybe even depreciation / purchase / lease.
If you take the view that you will have a car anyway (as I do), then MOT, insurance, road tax etc. are fixed "sunk" costs which are spent whether or not you travel to an event.
The variable costs are really fuel, a factor for servicing assuming it is done evey x,000 miles, wear and tear on tyres, exhaust, engine etc.
I don't have figures for individual components, but calculating for fuel only :
Assume £2.00 per litre = £9.00 per gallon (around us it's less than that again now)
At 50 miles per gallon = 18p / mile
At 40 miles per gallon = 22.5p / mile
I was going to say something very similar, but you got in first. The HMRC mileage claim limit of 45p is ostensibly based on the full costs of running the car. It's been at that level for a long time, so inevitably there is pressure for it to be raised.
Personal spending decisions are based on variable costs, and probably an incomplete picture of these. I suspect that most people simply look at the likely fuel cost of a car journey. Fixed costs are irrelevant, and things like wear and tear and depreciation insufficiently visible to be included in most people's calculations.
But although I question the detail, I think the core question of the impact on attendance of the cost of living rises is worth considering. Personally, I doubt there will be a consistent effect, as different people will react differently. I suspect that there will be a majority of established orienteers who will prioritise event attendance over other things; but may shift how they attend. Some of these shifts- e.g. greater car sharing- would be a good thing.
What I fear is that the already anaemic recruitment of new participants into the sport will be the thing that suffers most. And if attendance from/ volunteering by established orienteers drops a little, there's likely to be even less focus put on addressing this existential issue for the sport.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
spitalfields wrote:I suspect that there will be a majority of established orienteers who will prioritise event attendance over other things.
If the price cap does increase to the levels forecast (and the government either under the 'current' PM or either of the idiots running to replace him, continue with total inaction or at best inadequate action), then I suspect I will be doing little to no orienteering outside my club area.
Amongst cut backs in other areas too.
I don't have a spare £3k to spend on heating my house this winter. Maybe the 'majority' of "established" (read between the lines - older) orienteers do? I suspect that many of the much lamented 21-45 age group may struggle.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Apologies if that's a little provocative.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Just to provide some evidence to support my post earlier, here's a report from the Tony Blair Institute: https://institute.global/policy/how-bad ... queeze-get
10% drop income in real terms for Deciles 2-4. Obviously Decile 1 get it much worse.
That's something like 30% of my disposable income.
So, yes, I suspect a lot of orienteering is going to have to go.
10% drop income in real terms for Deciles 2-4. Obviously Decile 1 get it much worse.
That's something like 30% of my disposable income.
So, yes, I suspect a lot of orienteering is going to have to go.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
SeanC wrote:Are clubs planning for this? Eg planning for a lower than expected turnout or initiatives to encourage car sharing.
I'm quoting myself here as this is the point I am most interested in. There's a lot clubs might be able to do to keep people orienteering during this crisis as there is a lot of slack in the system. All those empty car seats... plenty of cash in the bank accounts of most clubs. Even before looking at more radical changes to event scheduling etc.
Have committees discussed this? Planning to? Any plans?
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
In Scotland we do quite a few weekends of orienteering competitions which is great as a lot of Scots will be facing a hefty drive. The expensive part is the overnight stay. Finding cheap accommodation local to the races is the challenge.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Numbers have been down by what looks like roughly a third anyway, certainly round here, although that isn't just limited to orienteering, covid does appear to have changed people's habits before you get onto the cost of things, possibly a seperate discussion.
I hope clubs review their event pricing on a temporary basis to maybe budget to something nearer break even.
And allow EOD! If you have to commit to entering in advance and spending the money up front, if you are tightening the purse strings maybe you won't bother. But if you find yourself with some £ to spare at the end of the month but you've missed the entry deadline, well you still won't bother! Particularly when we get into the more congested parts of the calendar...
I hope clubs review their event pricing on a temporary basis to maybe budget to something nearer break even.
And allow EOD! If you have to commit to entering in advance and spending the money up front, if you are tightening the purse strings maybe you won't bother. But if you find yourself with some £ to spare at the end of the month but you've missed the entry deadline, well you still won't bother! Particularly when we get into the more congested parts of the calendar...
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
I would agree on allowing pre-entry the day before for those reasons. EOD I don't agree with as numbers of competitors down also = numbers of volunteers down, so less volunteers to handle EOD.
What I like about the STAG option is that a club's income reduction could be used to target competitors who are car sharing - thereby growing a car sharing culture and giving competitors a much greater reduction in cost. I would go further and offer a 50% or more entry discount for car sharing where there are 3 or more occupants. This might be something racesignup and other entry systems can handle as well to avoid having to handle refunds, assuming a reasonable level of honesty amongst competitors?
What I like about the STAG option is that a club's income reduction could be used to target competitors who are car sharing - thereby growing a car sharing culture and giving competitors a much greater reduction in cost. I would go further and offer a 50% or more entry discount for car sharing where there are 3 or more occupants. This might be something racesignup and other entry systems can handle as well to avoid having to handle refunds, assuming a reasonable level of honesty amongst competitors?
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
housewife wrote:In Scotland we do quite a few weekends of orienteering competitions which is great as a lot of Scots will be facing a hefty drive. The expensive part is the overnight stay. Finding cheap accommodation local to the races is the challenge.
I agree - the direct cost increase from fuel will not be the problem. Any cost increases to events (e.g. I'm told be those in the print industry that paper is about 20% more than 12 months ago) etc will not be the problem. The total cumulative effect of travel+entries+accomodation may be what pushes the cost from fun weekend to unjustifiable discretionary spend. Of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that O needs to suffer - perhaps £5 for a run in a local park and £2.50 each way on the bus is a bargain by comparison.
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Len wrote:Numbers have been down by what looks like roughly a third anyway, certainly round here, although that isn't just limited to orienteering, covid does appear to have changed people's habits before you get onto the cost of things, possibly a seperate discussion.
I hope clubs review their event pricing on a temporary basis to maybe budget to something nearer break even.
And allow EOD! If you have to commit to entering in advance and spending the money up front, if you are tightening the purse strings maybe you won't bother. But if you find yourself with some £ to spare at the end of the month but you've missed the entry deadline, well you still won't bother! Particularly when we get into the more congested parts of the calendar...
Interestingly I think the opposite has been observed for local events in some places? INCREASED numbers through the lockdown period as either people weren't travelling to regional/international things or weren't able to take part in some other sports etc. Not sure if its been sustained throughout 2022 for a more normal season? Anecdotally I've also heard that committing about a week before also makes you more likely to turn up rather than look at the weather / hangover / etc and say "I'll give it a miss".
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
SeanC wrote:Are clubs planning for this? Eg planning for a lower than expected turnout or initiatives to encourage car sharing.
Racesignup has a car share scheme just gone on trial with SAXONS. The basics are there:
- Allow people to register as driver, passenger or both
- Display journey distance to event with approx fuel cost and CO2 cost
- Allow passengers to connect to drivers within n miles of them, and vice versa
Left to do
- Think about how best way to support the use of public transport
- Provide a way for people to say that they have found a share
On the public transport, I was thinking of two methods (maybe use both). Someone using public transport would say where their journey is ending then either:
- Send their details to the event organiser to sort out a pick up
and/or
- Show them registered drivers who live within n miles of the event location.
Any thoughts?
We built a club entry system so you don't have to! racesignup.co.uk
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Travel to events by public transport has always been challenging to many events, but in current circumstances (strikes, shortage of crews, engineering works) I don't dare book any tickets or enter events where I would have used public transport. The most obvious example is London City race, which I was thinking of entering again this year but it only makes sense if I can travel by train....
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Re: Orienteering - a discretionary spend problem
Unions have to give 2 weeks' notice for any strikes, so there will now NOT be a rail strike on the London City Race weekend.
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