JK
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Re: JK
DaveK wrote:Lovely long weekend of high class orienteering. Thanks to all involved in the organisation of the four events.
Seconded - impressive organisation throughout - thanks to all who helped to make the event a success.
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: JK
DaveK wrote:Lovely long weekend of high class orienteering. Thanks to all involved in the organisation of the four events.
‘Thirded’ - there just seemed to be a relaxed vibe on all 4 days, no doubt helped by glorious spring sunshine. Thanks to all volunteers.
- RoT
- orange
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Re: JK
Thanks to everyone involved - it was a great weekend from start to finish. I was very happy to be back at a JK after 3 years
Kudos to the results/IT folk. Overall the best results service I can remember from any major event. The live results worked very smoothly, plus Winsplits/Routegadget/BOF rankings all uploaded in double quick time
Kudos also to the day 1 string course team. A super course, thoroughly enjoyed by my little one.
Kudos to the results/IT folk. Overall the best results service I can remember from any major event. The live results worked very smoothly, plus Winsplits/Routegadget/BOF rankings all uploaded in double quick time
Kudos also to the day 1 string course team. A super course, thoroughly enjoyed by my little one.
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Crex - white
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Re: JK
Crex wrote:Kudos to the results/IT folk. Overall the best results service I can remember from any major event. The live results worked very smoothly, plus Winsplits/Routegadget/BOF rankings all uploaded in double quick time
I reckon getting the Sunday Elite start times published at 17:57 on the Saturday must be some sort of record.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: JK
buzz wrote:You can tell JK2022 was a good event by the lack of posts in Nopesport. JK2019 got 199 posts, mainly about the dreadful Emit timing and results system.
The JK was excellent. It was great to be back racing a good variety of formats over the Easter weekend, the organisation was great, and the weather helped too!
But, there were only about 1,600 people at the Sprint and just under 2,000 at days 2 and 3. The JK used to reliably get 3,000 people, and occasionally 3,500. Where have they all gone, and will they come back...?
Maybe Covid is a large part of the reason? Foreign orienteers were largely absent - will they be back next year?
Or have our Major events just shrunk, and we'll never see 3,000 at a JK again?
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
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Spookster - god
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Re: JK
The JK was excellent. It was great to be back racing a good variety of formats over the Easter weekend, the organisation was great, and the weather helped too!
But, there were only about 1,600 people at the Sprint and just under 2,000 at days 2 and 3. The JK used to reliably get 3,000 people, and occasionally 3,500. Where have they all gone, and will they come back...?
Maybe Covid is a large part of the reason? Foreign orienteers were largely absent - will they be back next year?
Or have our Major events just shrunk, and we'll never see 3,000 at a JK again?
A combination of covid (not feeling safe, not sure event would happen, not wanting to travel internationally), the location (for anyone flying in unless lucky enough to live somewhere served by Bristol/Cardiff you'd have a long drive to add; and even for a lot of Brits it would be a big drive), cost of accom (which has gone up a lot Covid/Brexit?). I'm sure we will see numbers gradually recovering.
I thought it was an excellent event, excellently run and I never saw or heard a single complaint.
I assume numbers are always lower at the sprint? If they want to get them up - maybe the overall winner needs to be based on all 3 days - although probably the winners are serious enough to be there for all days the fact its not part of the result sends a message that its an add on.
My only criticism, and this is not of the organisers, is that there were B and S classes with just a handful of competitors (at least one with only 1 person!) and I wonder if it is time to rethink them. It might be they are the 1000 missing people. If that is not the case - perhaps better to ditch that and just offer colour coded TD5 courses too?
- Atomic
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Re: JK
I assume numbers are always lower at the sprint? If they want to get them up - maybe the overall winner needs to be based on all 3 days - although probably the winners are serious enough to be there for all days the fact its not part of the result sends a message that its an add on.
Some people object to the high price for a 15 minute run, and this year it was also a lot further away from the two individual days than usual. Many older competitors also avoid running on tarmac to avoid the impact on their joints so adding the sprint into the overall results would not be great.
There were B and S classes with just a handful of competitors (at least one with only 1 person!) and I wonder if it is time to rethink them. It might be they are the 1000 missing people. If that is not the case - perhaps better to ditch that and just offer colour coded TD5 courses too?
The courses would be the same. It is just the results that would be presented differently. Would it really make any difference, or again even put some people off. For example M60S had 28 competitors. Would they all enter a colour coded course ?
- SJC
- diehard
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Re: JK
I had a great weekend, my youngest son did his first white course too (shadowed). They called out his name on the tannoy as we was coming into the finish on day three. He was very excited about it too, so I have done my part by introducing one more person to the sport.
- Excelman
- off string
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Re: JK
I'm sure the JK numbers are going down for all these reasons. Maybe next year's organisers will be happy with that as 2,000 might be much more manageable than 3,000.
The question of long term decline is more interesting. Will the JK in it's current form be around in 10 years or more? Are we doing enough to sell the JK to a new generation of orienteers?
In my opinion the JK could do more, as always at the cost of more volunteer time. With the demise of a printed BO magazine there needs to be better use of electronic communication for non CompassSport readers. Many people are booking their accommodation very early to reduce costs, so communication needs to be early too. 9 months to a year. I see next year's JK is in the Lakes. where good accommodation goes early, especially for big groups.
Then there is the question of the 'offer' for the 'just done 5 or so events' type of orienteer, and for the non orienteering other half who has done half a dozen events and could be persuaded to go along but not to anything too hard, and may also be bringing a dog on a lead (I declare an interest here). The B course offer is not appropriate here, and yellow/orange... could be seen as 'for kids'. Some suggestions:
- modern wayfarers courses (anyone remember these)? Long, easy, take at your own pace.
- score courses with a mixture of hard and easy controls, particularly good for newbies technical areas where a B course or even light green is likely to be a 2-3 hour epic.
- coaching or a 'yellow to light green' option offered over the 3 days to give the newbie the confidence to orienteer in TD5 areas (I accept not with a dog )
- an ad hoc (ish) beginners relay course open to anyone who's been to 10 events or less.
you get the idea - make the event attractive to a new generation of orienteers, then sell it to them early.
The question of long term decline is more interesting. Will the JK in it's current form be around in 10 years or more? Are we doing enough to sell the JK to a new generation of orienteers?
In my opinion the JK could do more, as always at the cost of more volunteer time. With the demise of a printed BO magazine there needs to be better use of electronic communication for non CompassSport readers. Many people are booking their accommodation very early to reduce costs, so communication needs to be early too. 9 months to a year. I see next year's JK is in the Lakes. where good accommodation goes early, especially for big groups.
Then there is the question of the 'offer' for the 'just done 5 or so events' type of orienteer, and for the non orienteering other half who has done half a dozen events and could be persuaded to go along but not to anything too hard, and may also be bringing a dog on a lead (I declare an interest here). The B course offer is not appropriate here, and yellow/orange... could be seen as 'for kids'. Some suggestions:
- modern wayfarers courses (anyone remember these)? Long, easy, take at your own pace.
- score courses with a mixture of hard and easy controls, particularly good for newbies technical areas where a B course or even light green is likely to be a 2-3 hour epic.
- coaching or a 'yellow to light green' option offered over the 3 days to give the newbie the confidence to orienteer in TD5 areas (I accept not with a dog )
- an ad hoc (ish) beginners relay course open to anyone who's been to 10 events or less.
you get the idea - make the event attractive to a new generation of orienteers, then sell it to them early.
- SeanC
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Re: JK
The great thing about Wayfarer's Courses was that they were blatently non-competitive, and open to everyone. They suited people trying out orienteering for the first time, as well as folks who just wanted a walk round an interesting area with a detailed map.
They were also excellent for parents/teachers who didn't want to get injured because they had to drive the kids home....
Do we want to attract people who don't have a strong competitive streak, but would enjoy the mapreading element of orienteering? If they find they are good at the mapreading bit,they might think having a bit of a jog will make it more challenging/interesting. And they start to look at times, they are hooked!
Just needs to be a circular route to a nice viewpoint.
Maybe present as a "Walkers Course" or "Map-readers Course" or "Route to the Cairn on the Top".
They were also excellent for parents/teachers who didn't want to get injured because they had to drive the kids home....
Do we want to attract people who don't have a strong competitive streak, but would enjoy the mapreading element of orienteering? If they find they are good at the mapreading bit,they might think having a bit of a jog will make it more challenging/interesting. And they start to look at times, they are hooked!
Just needs to be a circular route to a nice viewpoint.
Maybe present as a "Walkers Course" or "Map-readers Course" or "Route to the Cairn on the Top".
- Karen
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Re: JK
SJC wrote:There were B and S classes with just a handful of competitors (at least one with only 1 person!) and I wonder if it is time to rethink them. It might be they are the 1000 missing people. If that is not the case - perhaps better to ditch that and just offer colour coded TD5 courses too?
The courses would be the same. It is just the results that would be presented differently. Would it really make any difference, or again even put some people off. For example M60S had 28 competitors. Would they all enter a colour coded course ?
I don't see why not. They might not all enter the short blue course given a wider choice of options - and they may well decide to run their age class for the middle race on the Saturday.
- pete.owens
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Re: JK
The courses would be the same. It is just the results that would be presented differently.
Not quite. No new courses required on the ground on maps etc but people would genuinely be free to pick the length of course they wanted to do rather than the length of course the table tells them to.
There seems to be a sensible number on the B courses for M/W10&12s, but not so much for 14/16s. Then 18/20s have the E/L/S and (and at 21 we add V) which fragments the shorter courses even more.
Would it really make any difference, or again even put some people off. For example M60S had 28 competitors. Would they all enter a colour coded course ?
What benefit do they get entering M60S rather than say a Green course? There's no trophies in the B/S/V courses (or the L when theres an E!), they are only competing against people who happen to be in the same narrow group of birth years who also didn't fancy the full championship course for whatever reason, not necessarily people who are similar ability, or even fitness level as orienteers. Once you get to self-selecting on fitness/ability sex also becomes less relevant, which means everyone gets a bigger field. As a not very fast man I'm more interested in how my orienteering compares to other people who usually get similar results to me than any claims of glory. The S fields do seem "healthier numbers" in the over 50's presumably as more people start to feel the effects of ageing. How many M/W35/40 are at home saying "I'd have entered if there was an option to do a green course. I don't want to travel all the way to Wales for a Light Green, but since I've had the kids I'm not in shape for running an epic in terrain... " We won't know if we don't ask people, or we only ask the views of people who did enter.
- Atomic
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