The rules, guidelines and resources provided by BOF all seem pretty good to me, but I think there’s a tendency for organisers and planners just to ignore the aspirations of BOF and copy previous events which have been deemed to have been a success without considering how they could be improved.
I guess the problem is the delicate balance between maintaining standards and encouraging volunteers. People are naturally reluctant to voice concerns on public forums and tend to either to complement the event or saying nothing. Debates tend to focus on specific issues rather than commenting on the general standard of planning or lack of atmosphere at events. Organisers’ comments also tend to be largely back patting and BOFs marketing reinforces the general “what a great event” message, without reference to their own standards.
Private feedback channels might encourage more criticism although I still think most people view negative feedback as complaining and the recipients of any criticism tend to be defensive. You then have the problem of how are the lessons learnt are past on to future events not just within the club involved but raising standards an expectations generally.
I think BOF has part of the solution with the use of controllers as described here https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/page/controllers
The primary responsibility of the controller is “ensuring the standards required for the event are delivered during the organising, planning, delivery and reviewing of the event”, however many controllers restrict themselves to addressing specific rules and safety issues rather commenting more generally on the quality of the event and courses. The guidelines suggest comments should be delivered tactfully but if the planner and organiser are expecting criticism from the controller then that shouldn’t be a problem.
Controllers not only need to understand the rules and have experience of organising and planning events, they also need to understand what constitutes an appropriate standard for the various event levels. BOF’s requirements suggest that controllers should have organised and planned ‘successful’ events at the required level, but if we aren’t publicly sharing criticisms or lessons learnt from previous events then how can anyone judge whether an event was ‘successful’.
I think Nopesters could play an important part here by championing more critical feedback in the interests of sharing experiences and raising standards.
Controlling standards
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Re: Controlling standards
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: Controlling standards
I’m pretty sure that no-one will be more upset about the issues from the weekend’s events than those most closely involved. It will have made all the hours they have spent on planning and controlling feel almost worthless.
If I recall correctly there used to be a BO Controller’s Newsletter and this was really useful for sharing good practice and lessons learnt from previous events. A newsletter such as this, coupled with a suitable feedback system might help in the future and avoid errors being repeated.
It might even be worth having controller’s putting in a post-event form to report any issues - there might be some value if these were centrally collated and anonymously shared.
If I recall correctly there used to be a BO Controller’s Newsletter and this was really useful for sharing good practice and lessons learnt from previous events. A newsletter such as this, coupled with a suitable feedback system might help in the future and avoid errors being repeated.
It might even be worth having controller’s putting in a post-event form to report any issues - there might be some value if these were centrally collated and anonymously shared.
- mikey
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
Just an aside really but my son got confused by the unsmiley faces yesterday and actually ended up running off the map. They aren't mentioned in the final details as far as I can see which would be helpful in future (and also perhaps having them anywhere where white/yellow competitors might actually leave the mapped area rather than anywhere else - obviously I only have his word for it that this is what happened!).
- JennyJ
- red
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Re: Controlling standards
Mikey wrote:If I recall correctly there used to be a BO Controller’s Newsletter and this was really useful for sharing good practice and lessons learnt from previous events.
Indeed there was ... and there also used to be annual Association Controllers' conferences, regular courses for aspiring Level C, B and A controllers, etc etc. Controllers used to get a lot of support until about 15 years ago or so and now they get none. Not even a note to announce that there's a change in the Rules for example.
Now, none of the above happened of its own accord and NeilC and I will remember the days of the BOF Rules Group when, amongst many other things, I thought we did a pretty good job in monitoring and training controllers. Unfortunately, for reasons I will never understand, Rules Group was then abolished ...
Up until 15 years ago, BOF had a controlling system which was the envy of many other Federations. The echoes of that system still linger but what system still remains is regretably rudderless
- DJM
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
Unfortunately it is too late to satisfy the 50 day rule to formally bring it up at the BO AGM this year. I'm sure though there are plenty of Nopers that could jog a Director or two into reconsidering it's merits again at one of the Directors meetings.DJM wrote:Mikey wrote:If I recall correctly there used to be a BO Controller’s Newsletter and this was really useful for sharing good practice and lessons learnt from previous events.
Indeed there was ... and there also used to be annual Association Controllers' conferences, regular courses for aspiring Level C, B and A controllers, etc etc. Controllers used to get a lot of support until about 15 years ago or so and now they get none. Not even a note to announce that there's a change in the Rules for example.
Now, none of the above happened of its own accord and NeilC and I will remember the days of the BOF Rules Group when, amongst many other things, I thought we did a pretty good job in monitoring and training controllers. Unfortunately, for reasons I will never understand, Rules Group was then abolished ...
Up until 15 years ago, BOF had a controlling system which was the envy of many other Federations. The echoes of that system still linger but what system still remains is regretably rudderless
- maprun
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
In 2019, my club held around 20 events, large and small, which used SI, for which mostly I did the computing. In 2020, there were just two, and four in 2021. Even though we're now putting on more events again, we're doing very few small events using SI. MapRun has superseded them in many cases.
One thing this discussion hasn't yet touched upon is the fact that for most club orienteers, especially those who habitually plan, control and organise, is that we've had almost two years with very little conventional orienteering during Covid, and we've had time to forget.
Time to forget all sorts of little but essential tasks. To forget little routine procedures like uploading results to the BO website before folk moan they haven't got their Ranking points, to making sure that the overprint on Junior courses doesn't cover the path network, to forget to remind the planner to synchronise all the SI stations with the same Blue box, etc. Negative splits, once common 20 years ago as people grappled with unfamiliar technology for the first time, have begun to re-emerge. And we're all getting that bit older, as others have pointed out on this thread.
It probably going to take another few months before normal service is resumed and we need to be patient.
One thing this discussion hasn't yet touched upon is the fact that for most club orienteers, especially those who habitually plan, control and organise, is that we've had almost two years with very little conventional orienteering during Covid, and we've had time to forget.
Time to forget all sorts of little but essential tasks. To forget little routine procedures like uploading results to the BO website before folk moan they haven't got their Ranking points, to making sure that the overprint on Junior courses doesn't cover the path network, to forget to remind the planner to synchronise all the SI stations with the same Blue box, etc. Negative splits, once common 20 years ago as people grappled with unfamiliar technology for the first time, have begun to re-emerge. And we're all getting that bit older, as others have pointed out on this thread.
It probably going to take another few months before normal service is resumed and we need to be patient.
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kedge - light green
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Re: Controlling standards
DJM wrote:regular courses for aspiring Level C, B and A controllers, etc etc.
On that note I have been in recent discussions with the Orienteering Foundation to develop updated courses with professional video content that could form the basis of both controller training courses and general online information about the controlling process. Initially this is an initiative between SEOA and SCOA but I'd be interested in knowing what other regions have been doing and if there is already great content out there somewhere.
- NeilC
- addict
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Re: Controlling standards
As EMOA Development Co-ordinator I ran a Grade B/C Controllers' course in late 2021 and a colleague ran a Planners' course. We brought the participants together for practical sessions after a DVO and NOC event, which they all thought was useful to see issues from different perspectives - clubs and roles.
Until the pandemic, every other year we ran an EMOA development conference for event officials to discuss a variety of issues around planning, controlling and organising and invited a guest speaker to talk about their role in planning or organising different types of events - Sprints, Urban, Middle Distance, etc. The conferences were generally well attended but inevitably the people who really needed to be there didn't attend - "we don't need to sit around talking about this as we've been doing it fine for 'x' years."
In the intervening years we ran an event officials day, putting on training courses for controllers, planners, organisers, mappers, event safety, etc. Again, these were generally well attended and appreciated by participants.
I have been writing articles for my club and association newsletters about aspects or planning and controlling, not least the need to see the Appendices as having the same statues as Rules. However, there are still plenty of planners and controllers who see these as 'guidelines' which can be interpreted as they see fit.
I had hoped to run an online development conference during the pandemic but it didn't happen for various reasons. A face-to-face one will now take place in the autumn.
Until the pandemic, every other year we ran an EMOA development conference for event officials to discuss a variety of issues around planning, controlling and organising and invited a guest speaker to talk about their role in planning or organising different types of events - Sprints, Urban, Middle Distance, etc. The conferences were generally well attended but inevitably the people who really needed to be there didn't attend - "we don't need to sit around talking about this as we've been doing it fine for 'x' years."
In the intervening years we ran an event officials day, putting on training courses for controllers, planners, organisers, mappers, event safety, etc. Again, these were generally well attended and appreciated by participants.
I have been writing articles for my club and association newsletters about aspects or planning and controlling, not least the need to see the Appendices as having the same statues as Rules. However, there are still plenty of planners and controllers who see these as 'guidelines' which can be interpreted as they see fit.
I had hoped to run an online development conference during the pandemic but it didn't happen for various reasons. A face-to-face one will now take place in the autumn.
- RanaldMacdonald
- white
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- Location: Matlock
Re: Controlling standards
buzz wrote:Debates tend to focus on specific issues rather than commenting on the [...] lack of atmosphere at events.
I've done a bit of planning and organising, but only once can I remember a controller offering advice on event atmosphere - with, I think, fairly good results (credit to NeilC).
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: Controlling standards
The formal "complaint" route is to put in a protest. This doesn't happen very often, but when it does it usually indicates either a mistake or something that has made a competitor very unhappy. In either case there is probably something to learn from the occasion. I think it would be very useful if all protests and their outcomes were recorded and circulated in some way.
I think this also applies to IOF level events where the teams tend to be more litigious and where some decisions would benefit from an explanation.
I think this also applies to IOF level events where the teams tend to be more litigious and where some decisions would benefit from an explanation.
- DaveR
- red
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Re: Controlling standards
Its very easy to sit on the sides "throw rocks" without getting involved as a Planner/Controller/Organiser. If you want to change stuff, get involved.
It is the same with parkrun, lots of people taking part, but the same volunteers every week keeping things going.
It is the same with parkrun, lots of people taking part, but the same volunteers every week keeping things going.
- MrD
- white
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Re: Controlling standards
MrD wrote:Its very easy to sit on the sides "throw rocks" without getting involved as a Planner/Controller/Organiser. If you want to change stuff, get involved.
It is the same with parkrun, lots of people taking part, but the same volunteers every week keeping things going.
At Salcey Forest, someone did ask at download about how to become a controller. Whether this was triggered by the misplacement of the infamous control 85, I don't know (as I understand it, this was placed relative to the mapped vegetation rather than the ditches, but the vegetation was mapped incorrectly).
Being a controller in particular seems a thankless task, so I'd like to thank all the controllers I've worked with as a planner (and have yet to work with) for their invaluable help.
- sborrill
- off string
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Re: Controlling standards
Hello,
I'd rather be the Controller, than the Planner...
The steps are...
I'd rather be the Controller, than the Planner...
The steps are...
Grade C Controller - If you wish to become a Grade C Controller, the following must be completed:Organisation of a British Orienteering registered event at least once in the previous 10 years.
Plan 3 events, at least one at level C and one within the previous 5 years.
Attend a British Orienteering Level C controller course.
Attend an Event Safety workshop
Be appointed by the relevant Association
As a Grade C Controller you will:
Be able to Control a level D or C event
Source - https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/page/controllers
- MrD
- white
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Re: Controlling standards
MrD wrote:Its very easy to sit on the sides "throw rocks" without getting involved as a Planner/Controller/Organiser. If you want to change stuff, get involved.
That's exactly the problem I was describing - if anyone suggests that there is room for improvement they're accused of 'rock throwing' or similar. How are volunteers or the sport as a whole going to improve without feedback? The comments on this forum and in organisers' reports rarely seem to match conversations at the event because people are reluctant to criticise.
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: Controlling standards
You need more Controllers, which in turn provides you with Planners & Organisers.
When the number of controllers increases by 1 or 2 each year for the Club, the workload does not reduce, as one enters, one leaves. There does need to be a serious push across BOF for more Controllers, which will allow personnel to double up on some roles. A U/T (under training) Controller could sit on the shoulder of the Planner & the Controller, then see both the praise (planner) and the grief (controller).
Until the numbers increase, you are kinda stuck with the same-old people doing the same stuff. Stuff that was learned years ago, is still being implemented today, without refresher/update training.
Btw - I've had absolutely zero contact from BOF as a Controller, it would be nice to have a telephone call from them or so, its not like were exactly essential to the sport. Perhaps even a chat about how they can help me move up to Level A or so ~ in some form of development plan. You'll know when i have Planned an event, the first control will be at the top of a hill, over 1km away ~ because i love that kinda stuff..
When the number of controllers increases by 1 or 2 each year for the Club, the workload does not reduce, as one enters, one leaves. There does need to be a serious push across BOF for more Controllers, which will allow personnel to double up on some roles. A U/T (under training) Controller could sit on the shoulder of the Planner & the Controller, then see both the praise (planner) and the grief (controller).
Until the numbers increase, you are kinda stuck with the same-old people doing the same stuff. Stuff that was learned years ago, is still being implemented today, without refresher/update training.
Btw - I've had absolutely zero contact from BOF as a Controller, it would be nice to have a telephone call from them or so, its not like were exactly essential to the sport. Perhaps even a chat about how they can help me move up to Level A or so ~ in some form of development plan. You'll know when i have Planned an event, the first control will be at the top of a hill, over 1km away ~ because i love that kinda stuff..
- MrD
- white
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