Controlling standards
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Controlling standards
It’s probably me but are controlling standards slipping these days? Concorde Chase at Hawley, National at Salcey Forest. British Middles at Rushmore. All appear to have had basic issues that should have been picked up, if not by the planner then certainly by the controller. All UKOL events yet not fair on some of the punters who expect at least a good standard at ‘prestigious’ events. However I have no idea what the answer is. Anyone any ideas?
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Whitehawk - string
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Re: Controlling standards
Can't find any "Results" link at all on the British Middles webpages, not even a link to where they will appear.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: Controlling standards
King Penguin wrote:Can't find any "Results" link at all on the British Middles webpages, not even a link to where they will appear.
www.suffoc.co.uk/results/2022/BMDC2022
- mikey
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
Now that's an obvious place to put the results! Of course everyone will think to look there rather than the BO website for the event itself.
Maybe the results will be moved to the correct place later, a bit like seems to have happened with controls yesterday.
Maybe the results will be moved to the correct place later, a bit like seems to have happened with controls yesterday.
- DM
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Re: Controlling standards
The location of the results was clear in the Final Details.
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HarryO - orange
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Re: Controlling standards
HarryO wrote:The location of the results was clear in the Final Details.
That's not an obvious place to look for where results might be either.
If you didn't go but are interested in how friends have done why would you think of looking at the final details?
Much better to have a menu item on the British Middles event page called Results and put the results there.
- DM
- brown
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Re: Controlling standards
Back to the original question, without making any comments about the specific event mentioned.
Event officials very rarely get any feedback on their event in any form. How should a planner, controller or organiser know what they have done well or what could be better without some feedback?
Does anyone know of feedback arrangements that have been successfully used? I vaguely remember seeing some (Lake District?) events that had a specific email address for feedback but have no idea whether it was useful. I think the emails went to a moderator, not directly to the event officials.
Event officials very rarely get any feedback on their event in any form. How should a planner, controller or organiser know what they have done well or what could be better without some feedback?
Does anyone know of feedback arrangements that have been successfully used? I vaguely remember seeing some (Lake District?) events that had a specific email address for feedback but have no idea whether it was useful. I think the emails went to a moderator, not directly to the event officials.
- DaveR
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Re: Controlling standards
I miss the comments from planner, controller and organiser that used to be normal practice in the days of paper and postal results. It did mean that if mistakes were made, an explanation and apology was offered, and lessons could be learnt. They disappeared in favour in almost instant results, but with no regular avenue for feedback from either side. The usual practice now is to just upload the results with no comments and the only feedback is on forums like this one.
- Karen
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Re: Controlling standards
I also worry that key officials are getting older and fewer - without wanting to sound ageist, at some point that is likely to become a big problem.
But then that's also the case for participants, so some sort of 'healthy shrinking' to fewer but better events is eventually inevitable in my view.
But then that's also the case for participants, so some sort of 'healthy shrinking' to fewer but better events is eventually inevitable in my view.
- Arnold
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
Karen wrote:I miss the comments from planner, controller and organiser that used to be normal practice in the days of paper and postal results. It did mean that if mistakes were made, an explanation and apology was offered, and lessons could be learnt. They disappeared in favour in almost instant results, but with no regular avenue for feedback from either side. The usual practice now is to just upload the results with no comments and the only feedback is on forums like this one.
Seeing Salcey Forest was stated as an exemplar, that's a rather unfair generalisation. An interim discussion of the Salcey Forest event was uploaded along with the results on Saturday afternoon. It has since been further expanded after more analysis:
https://www.waoc.org.uk/events/salcey-forest-2022-03-05
- sborrill
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Re: Controlling standards
DaveR wrote:Back to the original question, without making any comments about the specific event mentioned.
Event officials very rarely get any feedback on their event in any form. How should a planner, controller or organiser know what they have done well or what could be better without some feedback?
Does anyone know of feedback arrangements that have been successfully used? I vaguely remember seeing some (Lake District?) events that had a specific email address for feedback but have no idea whether it was useful. I think the emails went to a moderator, not directly to the event officials.
Yes, what a good idea. I'm not sure about standards dropping generally, but an avenue to offer constructive feedback privately (rather than in an open forum) would sometimes be useful. An event I went to a couple of weeks ago with my grandchildren had a leg on the Yellow course almost completely covered with the purple line between the control circles (it also covered an intermediate path junction), but there appeared to be no easy way of giving feedback.
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DaveK - green
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Re: Controlling standards
My comment was indeed a generalisation.
I was not at Salcey, and had not intended critisism of that particular event.
Apologies if I offended.
I was not at Salcey, and had not intended critisism of that particular event.
Apologies if I offended.
- Karen
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Re: Controlling standards
I'm not a controller. How do controllers learn about what has gone wrong at previous events?
I've seen post event reports that simply state such things as the control was considered with hindsight to be in the wrong place, which might be a reasonable way to shortcomings to competitors, but to learn what went wrong for future events more explanation is needed and circulated to other controllers, such as.
The control hanger could not find the tape and hung it where they thought it should be and I failed to notice, and when collecting I noticed the original tape had come off. They did report this when they got back to assembly, but the message did not reach me in time. With hindsight I should have allowed an extra half hour in case things went wrong and also not assumed my mobile would work everywhere in the forest. Note, the control hanger followed their printed instructions to the letter.
Even the report suggested leaves many questions unanswered; why did the controller not notice the control was wrong, was the hanger too inexperienced to hang without a tape? Something for a debrief with another controller perhaps and added to their report later?
I've seen post event reports that simply state such things as the control was considered with hindsight to be in the wrong place, which might be a reasonable way to shortcomings to competitors, but to learn what went wrong for future events more explanation is needed and circulated to other controllers, such as.
The control hanger could not find the tape and hung it where they thought it should be and I failed to notice, and when collecting I noticed the original tape had come off. They did report this when they got back to assembly, but the message did not reach me in time. With hindsight I should have allowed an extra half hour in case things went wrong and also not assumed my mobile would work everywhere in the forest. Note, the control hanger followed their printed instructions to the letter.
Even the report suggested leaves many questions unanswered; why did the controller not notice the control was wrong, was the hanger too inexperienced to hang without a tape? Something for a debrief with another controller perhaps and added to their report later?
Last edited by maprun on Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- maprun
- diehard
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Re: Controlling standards
Most controllers are pretty active orienteers and go to plenty of events. Even though there may not be formal feedback channels a typical event car park will provide plenty of informal feedback on how that particular event could have been improved. I'm organising a relay in a few weeks' time and am expecting plenty of this. Feedback is helpful but in recent times constructive criticism has evolved into cancellation which doesn't encourage people to speak out.
As a controller experience is so crucial - as a competitor, planner and organiser. In my opinion though what is very important is that the controller has the confidence to get something changed if they are not happy with it. It's so easy to allow a planner to talk you around to allowing a site to be used when alarm bells are ringing all over the place.
As a controller experience is so crucial - as a competitor, planner and organiser. In my opinion though what is very important is that the controller has the confidence to get something changed if they are not happy with it. It's so easy to allow a planner to talk you around to allowing a site to be used when alarm bells are ringing all over the place.
- NeilC
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Re: Controlling standards
Point taken Neil, the controllers job sometimes includes, amongst other skills, the diplomatic education of the planner that their beloved course(s) needs tweaking a little or a lot!
- maprun
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