Preparing for a restart.
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Our MP is a minister in the DCMS (and is the father of one of the young rowers that my husband coaches). A gentle nudge required I feel.
- babs f
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
babs f wrote:Our MP is a minister in the DCMS (and is the father of one of the young rowers that my husband coaches). A gentle nudge required I feel.
You’d probably be better off bunging him a few quid. That seems to be the best way to get listened to.
- mikey
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Unless it is something like a mass start, there is no need for a "gathering" of more than 6 people at an orienteering activity.
I find it hard to see why orienteering is significantly different to say golf - which has been operating almost as normal (apart from the clubhouse) since the guidance issued on 1 June in England. 60 people going around an orienteering course in a morning, mainly individually, is little different to 60 people going around a golf course in either pairs or fours. Similarly tennis clubs have had multiple doubles matches playing at the same time on adjacent courts - so well over 6 people in total - provided they are spread out.
If you don't go around the course in a group of more than 6, and have sensible distancing arrangements at start and finish, where is the problem?
I think under (England, haven't checked others) government guidelines, and with suitable access permission, clubs could have been putting on low key activities for their own members (e.g no entry free, pick a map from the ground at 1-2 minute intervals, informal or no timing) for the past 4 weeks. It is effectively only British Orienteering that has been preventing it, by denying activity registration and thus insurance.
I find it hard to see why orienteering is significantly different to say golf - which has been operating almost as normal (apart from the clubhouse) since the guidance issued on 1 June in England. 60 people going around an orienteering course in a morning, mainly individually, is little different to 60 people going around a golf course in either pairs or fours. Similarly tennis clubs have had multiple doubles matches playing at the same time on adjacent courts - so well over 6 people in total - provided they are spread out.
If you don't go around the course in a group of more than 6, and have sensible distancing arrangements at start and finish, where is the problem?
I think under (England, haven't checked others) government guidelines, and with suitable access permission, clubs could have been putting on low key activities for their own members (e.g no entry free, pick a map from the ground at 1-2 minute intervals, informal or no timing) for the past 4 weeks. It is effectively only British Orienteering that has been preventing it, by denying activity registration and thus insurance.
- Snail
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
testing
- Big Jon
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I suppose the closest equivalent from a more well known sport would be cycling time trialling .. anyone know any of the plans there?
- iainwp
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
CTT - Waiting for more clarification of what is possible after 4 July, so all events still suspended until at least 12 July, larger events 17 July.
- Karen
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I agree with snail and I think the issue might be that BOF is comparing itself with the wrong sports when talking to insurers?
I assume golf has insurance in place. So if BOF says 'orienteering is basically like golf, except that people can deviate from the course for a bit' then that would be more helpful than 'orienteering is basically like a marathon except a bit more spread out'. I'm sure that's not what they're doing but context setting is very important, as it will form different mental pictures. As far as I know, golf doesn't have a maximum number of participants, but rather a maximum group size & distancing rules, which then gets translated into a maximum total number of players per hour. So why can't we do the same?
What SYO and others are doing with their 'time trial O'' is halfway in between, but it does seem that we're being too cautious here, especially for races held on remote and/or private land.
Does anyone have the latest from BOF? The update on the website is now a month old.
I assume golf has insurance in place. So if BOF says 'orienteering is basically like golf, except that people can deviate from the course for a bit' then that would be more helpful than 'orienteering is basically like a marathon except a bit more spread out'. I'm sure that's not what they're doing but context setting is very important, as it will form different mental pictures. As far as I know, golf doesn't have a maximum number of participants, but rather a maximum group size & distancing rules, which then gets translated into a maximum total number of players per hour. So why can't we do the same?
What SYO and others are doing with their 'time trial O'' is halfway in between, but it does seem that we're being too cautious here, especially for races held on remote and/or private land.
Does anyone have the latest from BOF? The update on the website is now a month old.
- Arnold
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
26th June, Sport England in a 'Getting ready to return to play' update said -
'And while the government has not yet given the green light to the wider reopening of facilities and the restarting of recreational sport, we believe it’s important to prepare for these changes now – as much as possible.'
I would assume (and hope), that BO is awaiting Government/Sport England advice as things stand. Clearly work has been going on nationally (and I know locally) to prepare for a return to those lovely forests.
'And while the government has not yet given the green light to the wider reopening of facilities and the restarting of recreational sport, we believe it’s important to prepare for these changes now – as much as possible.'
I would assume (and hope), that BO is awaiting Government/Sport England advice as things stand. Clearly work has been going on nationally (and I know locally) to prepare for a return to those lovely forests.
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DaveK - green
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I play golf. I thought it might be interesting to state the restrictions we have to work within.
When we were first allowed to re-start (middle of May) we were limited to groups of 2. Since the start of June we've playing in groups of 4. We do have to maintain social distancing. No shaking of hands, picking up each others balls, swapping score cards, etc. The pin has to stay in the hole and there's an insert in the hole so that the ball is retrievable without touching the pin or sides of the hole.
Play is only allowed with a pre-booked (on-line) tee time. Groups of 4 set off at 10 minute intervals. If you lose your ball you're not allowed to go back and play another one to keep the groups apart.
The clubhouse is still closed but the Pro's shop has recently reopened.
I'm confident an orienteering event could be run with no more risk than that present within golf.
When we were first allowed to re-start (middle of May) we were limited to groups of 2. Since the start of June we've playing in groups of 4. We do have to maintain social distancing. No shaking of hands, picking up each others balls, swapping score cards, etc. The pin has to stay in the hole and there's an insert in the hole so that the ball is retrievable without touching the pin or sides of the hole.
Play is only allowed with a pre-booked (on-line) tee time. Groups of 4 set off at 10 minute intervals. If you lose your ball you're not allowed to go back and play another one to keep the groups apart.
The clubhouse is still closed but the Pro's shop has recently reopened.
I'm confident an orienteering event could be run with no more risk than that present within golf.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
DaveK wrote:26th June, Sport England in a 'Getting ready to return to play' update said -
'And while the government has not yet given the green light to the wider reopening of facilities and the restarting of recreational sport, we believe it’s important to prepare for these changes now – as much as possible.'
The statement I found on their website is:
Sport England wrote:Over the last few weeks, the government has approved the restarting of outdoor sports, within social distancing guidelines, but indoor facilities, such as clubhouses and outdoor swimming pools, remain closed, while outdoor gyms and playgrounds can reopen from 4 July. As we're expecting government guidance to emerge soon on reopening indoor facilities safely, it's important we prepare for those changes now as much as possible.
.. which is rather different!
- Snail
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Sport England say under Latest Government Guidance.
Many facilities associated with outdoor sports and physical activities can reopen, if those responsible for them feel ready to do so and if they can do so safely.
Facilities that can open include basketball and tennis courts, playing spaces like golf courses (public and private), playing fields and watersports.
But outdoor gyms, playgrounds and outdoor swimming pools will remain closed. Outdoor gyms and playgrounds can reopen from 4 July.
Each venue, including council-owned sports facilities, should make their own decisions about when their facilities are ready.
For sport-specific guidance around when people might be able to return to training, they should check in with the relevant organisations and governing bodies for advice they may be providing.
Am I missing something by concluding the ball is in BO's court, to advise us on the restart and the how and when?
Many facilities associated with outdoor sports and physical activities can reopen, if those responsible for them feel ready to do so and if they can do so safely.
Facilities that can open include basketball and tennis courts, playing spaces like golf courses (public and private), playing fields and watersports.
But outdoor gyms, playgrounds and outdoor swimming pools will remain closed. Outdoor gyms and playgrounds can reopen from 4 July.
Each venue, including council-owned sports facilities, should make their own decisions about when their facilities are ready.
For sport-specific guidance around when people might be able to return to training, they should check in with the relevant organisations and governing bodies for advice they may be providing.
Am I missing something by concluding the ball is in BO's court, to advise us on the restart and the how and when?
- maprun
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
I would have thought the biggest issues were (1) narrow paths (impossible to pass while maintaining distancing) and (2) control sites (people are unlikely to want to wait until another, possibly slower, competitor has punched, looked at their map, scratched their head, decided which way to go etc.) Maybe a relatively small event in a very open area, with multiple punches/SI boxes per control all 2m apart, would be feasible.
- roadrunner
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
roadrunner wrote:I would have thought the biggest issues were (1) narrow paths (impossible to pass while maintaining distancing) and (2) control sites (people are unlikely to want to wait until another, possibly slower, competitor has punched, looked at their map, scratched their head, decided which way to go etc.) Maybe a relatively small event in a very open area, with multiple punches/SI boxes per control all 2m apart, would be feasible.
Until 3 July it is 2m, but afterwards 1m plus indoors and hopefully outdoors too!
Some basic rules/etiquette would be helpful and reiterated at the start, such as moving away from controls immediately after punching and moving to the sides of paths, which most people already do.
- maprun
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
It seems to me that BO are only considering one form of orienteering: the traditional event, with entry fee (and levy!), which requires additional care over things like logistics, registration/pre-entry, non-member participation, start, course etiquette, download, etc. And because this doesn't yet fit with distancing very easily, they are prohibiting all activities!
Clearly the long-term aim is for this sort of event to return. Each club needs to work out what it can/can't accommodate - depending on its own particular circumstances, and perhaps also on things you wouldn't usually think about, like age of volunteers.
But one way to help clubs work towards that aim would be to let them restart with the sort of low key activity I described above (club-only members, no entry fee, just flags and maps, no timing etc), which can easily avoid the distancing issue. They can then work out how to gradually extend that in a way that works for them, to eventually (and this may take some time, and be at different rates) arrive at fully open events that meet any guidance then in force.
About the only thing that makes the currrent BO "all or nothing" stance understandable would be if they have negotiated suspension of the insurance policy, so they are saving a significant proportion of the premium for the current year - and need to agree a date when it will restart.
Clearly the long-term aim is for this sort of event to return. Each club needs to work out what it can/can't accommodate - depending on its own particular circumstances, and perhaps also on things you wouldn't usually think about, like age of volunteers.
But one way to help clubs work towards that aim would be to let them restart with the sort of low key activity I described above (club-only members, no entry fee, just flags and maps, no timing etc), which can easily avoid the distancing issue. They can then work out how to gradually extend that in a way that works for them, to eventually (and this may take some time, and be at different rates) arrive at fully open events that meet any guidance then in force.
About the only thing that makes the currrent BO "all or nothing" stance understandable would be if they have negotiated suspension of the insurance policy, so they are saving a significant proportion of the premium for the current year - and need to agree a date when it will restart.
- Snail
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Re: Preparing for a restart.
Even for 'normal' events though, in the forest the social distancing aspect is not really a problem - at least not more than when you're out in the park on your average run. How often have you actually had to wait to punch a control at a smallish event? And if so, the 3 seconds extra isn't going to be a problem. And surely people can manage to pass on small paths without touching each other?!
Smaller (and indeed larger) events have been successfully staged in many other countries since May as and when they are coming out of Lockdown. Now that we're at this stage, surely we too can find a way.
[am hopefully waiting for scott to chip in the latest from BOF at this stage, if he's up for it ]
Smaller (and indeed larger) events have been successfully staged in many other countries since May as and when they are coming out of Lockdown. Now that we're at this stage, surely we too can find a way.
[am hopefully waiting for scott to chip in the latest from BOF at this stage, if he's up for it ]
- Arnold
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