Anyone else watch the 400m mixed relay at the World Athletics Champs? Bit of a strange one.
The interesting part was the ability to choose the running order. Most of the teams went with MWWM, as I guess based on conventional relay practice you don't want to be too far behind at the start but also want your fastest runner on the anchor. Was a bit of a strange watch when the odd team didn't do this - Japan in the qualifiers and Poland in the final.
One of my main gripes with the mixed sprint relay in orienteering is the restricted WMMW format which means even if you have a top class male sprinter you'll never see them on the anchor. I wonder if IOF could be persuaded to allow some flexibility for teams to make their own running order, or would that lose the head to head racing the format was designed to promote? Maybe alternate WOC sprint relays could be MWWM, or you draw for your running order prior to the race.
Mixed 400m relay
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Mixed 400m relay
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
The problem with own choice of leg is that the different forking has a huge effect on times - the gaffe are never the same - some are longer than others (either distance or time-wise). So allowing any sort of order without the team knowing which is the longest forking introduces a completely random unfairness into the system. Making it WMMW means the chances of unfairness is reduced significantly.
Plus no serious team would ever put a woman on last leg - they would lose 95%+ of the sprint finishes...
Plus no serious team would ever put a woman on last leg - they would lose 95%+ of the sprint finishes...
- Big Jon
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
Big Jon wrote:The problem with own choice of leg is that the different forking has a huge effect on times - the gaffe are never the same - some are longer than others (either distance or time-wise). So allowing any sort of order without the team knowing which is the longest forking introduces a completely random unfairness into the system. Making it WMMW means the chances of unfairness is reduced significantly.
That's a fair point - any reason why they couldn't alternate year about MWWM?
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
You could always make all 4 legs the same length, as at the athletics.
I thought the Polish team opting for a different order (MMWW) to everyone else (MWWM) in the final made a more interesting race for spectators. It could have been even more interesting if each of 8 teams had a different order!
For orienteering the impact would be a bit different, but there would still be some head-to-head racing. And for spectators at any particular point in the course there might be more continuous interest, rather than packs coming through at roughly 15 minute intervals.
I thought the Polish team opting for a different order (MMWW) to everyone else (MWWM) in the final made a more interesting race for spectators. It could have been even more interesting if each of 8 teams had a different order!
For orienteering the impact would be a bit different, but there would still be some head-to-head racing. And for spectators at any particular point in the course there might be more continuous interest, rather than packs coming through at roughly 15 minute intervals.
- Snail
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
Snail wrote:You could always make all 4 legs the same length, as at the athletics.
But even if "same' length the courses can vary on real running distance or conditions, therefore not fair.
- Big Jon
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
Even if you were allowed to change the order in which the legs were run you wouldn't change the legs run by each runner. The two women need to be gaffled against each other as do the two men.
IMO it would be even more important from spectators point of view for the lengths of the womens and mens legs to be designed to give the same expected lead time. That way you have some idea of which team is in the lead at each handover. This is different from the 4x400 where spectators can see the whole race.
You would probably have to plan completely different men's and womens courses, rather than just add a short loop for the men. Otherwise the optimum strategy would always be to run WWMM to maximise the opportunity for following the pack on the early legs.
IMO it would be even more important from spectators point of view for the lengths of the womens and mens legs to be designed to give the same expected lead time. That way you have some idea of which team is in the lead at each handover. This is different from the 4x400 where spectators can see the whole race.
You would probably have to plan completely different men's and womens courses, rather than just add a short loop for the men. Otherwise the optimum strategy would always be to run WWMM to maximise the opportunity for following the pack on the early legs.
- pete.owens
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Re: Mixed 400m relay
pete.owens wrote:You would probably have to plan completely different men's and womens courses, rather than just add a short loop for the men. Otherwise the optimum strategy would always be to run WWMM to maximise the opportunity for following the pack on the early legs.
Yeah I was thinking this if you had the best woman on your team, you'd maybe want her in the mix with the men rather than out front on her own?
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