WMOC 2019
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Re: WMOC 2019
I have fond memories of that alleyway - interesting to note the map had changed since WOC..
- Kris
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Re: WMOC 2019
Kris wrote:I have fond memories of that alleyway - interesting to note the map had changed since WOC..
"Fond"?
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rocky - [nope] cartel
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Re: WMOC 2019
Kris wrote:I have fond memories of that alleyway - interesting to note the map had changed since WOC..
Obviously the mapping varies depending on your direction of approach.
At least the door was unlocked for you Kris.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: WMOC 2019
Homer wrote:Kris wrote:I have fond memories of that alleyway - interesting to note the map had changed since WOC..
Obviously the mapping varies depending on your direction of approach.
At least the door was unlocked for you Kris.
I investigated that alley a few days after Kris's efforts and took photographs of it which I put in the original nopesport thread.
BTW it took me 3 attempts to find the way into the alley in the opposite direction to where Kris came from (due to the vagaries of the mapped restaurant chairs mapped outside on a different day - my excuse anyway - but from that side it just looked like any other doorway, not an alley).
From Kris's direction there were 2 gotchas - one was to run direct and end up in a beer garden (as I think it was), the other was to use the correct entrance and forget to do a chicane and end up running downstairs into a kitchen.
JK
- JK
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Re: WMOC 2019
roadrunner wrote:Surely you could limit the excluded time to something reasonable given the length of the leg concerned?
Absolutely! It wouldn’t be as good as avoiding the problem in the first place, but it would be reasonably fair. Unlike voiding, which is fair only in that it wrecks everybody’s day just as badly.
- IanD
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Re: WMOC 2019
Homer wrote:What I can't understand is why the organising team didn't check the door was open before the race started.
This is the most annoying thing. It. Sounds very much as if the organiser did know of the problem before the first start, but decided not to do anything about it. Putting a map in each start lane showing the location of the problem would have given people the information they needed.
I hesitate to use the word “unforgivable” about a volunteer-organised event, but I’m struggling to find a better one.
- IanD
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Re: WMOC 2019
I have argued for many years that the rules for situations such as this are still in the pin-punch age. Given that the problem happened, the least bad outcome has to be removing the affected legs and applying an appropriate max leg duration, just like a max time for a timed-out road crossing.
Those who won were denied medals and titles, and it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to now be able to attempt to defend again next year.
As for what could / should have been done, my wife had an early start and was denied access to the alley around 30 minutes after first starts, by an official standing there. As soon as the problem was known about, all classes not yet started should have been delayed and as many helpers as possible mustered to apply red or black lines on the maps across the end of the alley. The vast majority of classes could then still have had legitmate results, albeit a few would still have needed the leg to be removed.
Those who won were denied medals and titles, and it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to now be able to attempt to defend again next year.
As for what could / should have been done, my wife had an early start and was denied access to the alley around 30 minutes after first starts, by an official standing there. As soon as the problem was known about, all classes not yet started should have been delayed and as many helpers as possible mustered to apply red or black lines on the maps across the end of the alley. The vast majority of classes could then still have had legitmate results, albeit a few would still have needed the leg to be removed.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: WMOC 2019
King Penguin wrote:I have argued for many years that the rules for situations such as this are still in the pin-punch age. Given that the problem happened, the least bad outcome has to be removing the affected legs and applying an appropriate max leg duration, just like a max time for a timed-out road crossing.
Those who won were denied medals and titles, and it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to now be able to attempt to defend again next year.
As for what could / should have been done, my wife had an early start and was denied access to the alley around 30 minutes after first starts, by an official standing there. As soon as the problem was known about, all classes not yet started should have been delayed and as many helpers as possible mustered to apply red or black lines on the maps across the end of the alley. The vast majority of classes could then still have had legitmate results, albeit a few would still have needed the leg to be removed.
Exactly
JK
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Re: WMOC 2019
IanD wrote:
Massive sympathy for the planner and the volunteers whose work has been wasted. It seems the event organiser knew of the problem before the event started and did nothing to mitigate it. If this is true, he deserves all the flack he will get. It would have been simple to put back the start, and display maps in the start lanes showing the location of the problem.
Essentially, the controller would take it all here. They represent the athletes and should ensure that if something was to be "unlocked", it had been "unlocked" ahead of the start; not actually in person, but question & response type of task.
IanD wrote:Hopefully some good will come of this, if IOF are forced to drag their rules out of the pin-punch age and permit a single leg time to be removed from the results. Not perfect, but better than voiding courses.
If within the UK, i would just void the affected leg on all courses. Gates being opened, then closed, or being closed, then opened are not new to orienteering. This is part of the sport, therefore unless its actually monitored/marshalled they will always be a problem. the solution could be to remove all alleyways completely, but they you just get an extended, sadly very boring road-running race...
- MrD
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Re: WMOC 2019
MrD wrote:IanD wrote:...
If within the UK, i would just void the affected leg on all courses. Gates being opened, then closed, or being closed, then opened are not new to orienteering. This is part of the sport, therefore unless its actually monitored/marshalled they will always be a problem. the solution could be to remove all alleyways completely, but they you just get an extended, sadly very boring road-running race...
2.7 of IOF FootO Rules:
"Sporting fairness shall be the guiding principle in the interpretation of these rules by competitors, organisers and the jury"
This seemed to have been applied for the JWOC Long, but I find it hard to believe that voiding courses serves anyone w.r.t. fairness.
JK
- JK
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Re: WMOC 2019
JK wrote:This seemed to have been applied for the JWOC Long, but I find it hard to believe that voiding courses serves anyone w.r.t. fairness.
We have to remember that usually the Organiser, Planner, Controller, plus the Jury are usually all volunteers. They could have been "stressed" already, and the easiest solution on the day/post event is to "void" everything by-default, then re-assess once the dust has settled.
As i said above, i would just void legs. I like to think that if someone has travelled, paid some monies to enter an event, they should get "value for money" from it.
#offtopic ~ At the lower level events, if someone is "MP", we will investigate as far as we can before we go "MP" for final results; i'm often & usually, the victim of a mp..
Have a good day,
MrD
- MrD
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Re: WMOC 2019
Having moaned about the sprint - and I still don’t see how disqualifying almost every competitor is fair - I’d like to say that both forest competitions have been absolutely first class. The only minor complaint I’ve heard is that some of the course were a bit short.
- IanD
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