I was wondering what thoughts various clubs and members have on the SOA proposal to introduce a 10% entry fee cost levy on Regional, National and Major events, instead of having a levy on events where entry fees are above £10?
It's been brought up as a topic we should be voting on at the AGM and generally it seems very reasonable to me, however I understand that others have different opinions and have suggested it would negatively affect some active clubs. Is the motivation to increase SOA funds or is it to simplify administration?
SOA levy 10% entry fees
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
It might be worth seeing what the other associations do.
FYI, here's what happens in SEOA from their website:
Levy fees don't necessarily penalise active clubs assuming the levy is passed on in increased entry fees, but do penalise active orienteers. If there is need to raise more money, then asking those that orienteer more to pay more seems fair to me.
FYI, here's what happens in SEOA from their website:
40% of the BO levy on selected events registered with SEOA, but waived if £10 or less.
Events that are levied:
All SE League events regardless of level
Any level A or level B event not explicitly exempted from the levy.
Levy fees don't necessarily penalise active clubs assuming the levy is passed on in increased entry fees, but do penalise active orienteers. If there is need to raise more money, then asking those that orienteer more to pay more seems fair to me.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
I hadn't given it much thought until I read the emails that have been doing the rounds up here.
I guess the main concern Id have is that this levy is being made against entry fees rather than profit so the club will still need to make the payment even if the event overall makes a loss. I guess that's not so far different from a per head levy although I note that the expected SOA income from this increases 350% (possibly because it increases the amount of events it is relevant to rather than anything else)
I know one of the concerns (and I share this) is that already there is a significant covert pressure on volunteers not to claim expenses for events, in part because we know that if we did many events would simply not take place. This cant do anything but add to that for the smaller events (eg SOUL events) that will now be included in this but which would have previously been exempt if the entry fee was under a set amount.
I guess the main concern Id have is that this levy is being made against entry fees rather than profit so the club will still need to make the payment even if the event overall makes a loss. I guess that's not so far different from a per head levy although I note that the expected SOA income from this increases 350% (possibly because it increases the amount of events it is relevant to rather than anything else)
I know one of the concerns (and I share this) is that already there is a significant covert pressure on volunteers not to claim expenses for events, in part because we know that if we did many events would simply not take place. This cant do anything but add to that for the smaller events (eg SOUL events) that will now be included in this but which would have previously been exempt if the entry fee was under a set amount.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
Possible +/-:
- A simple 10% produces a fairer result for events that would otherwise be just under/over the £10 threshhold
- A percentage, rather than a flat, levy does not have to be revisted every year.
- Clubs might start to game the system by downgrading events to below Regional
- Clubs might start to game the system by splitting costs out of the entry fee (e.g. a separate charge for parking or other facilities)
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
For the year to 31st December 2018, the SOA’s total income was £238,317 (2017 - £217,580) and expenditure was £220,721 (2017 - £177,400).
ie a profit of £17,596 in 2018 and a profit of £40,180 in 2017.
At the end of 2018 the SOA’s total reserves amounted to £242,800,
Operations Reserve £80,000
Asset Replacement Reserve £10,000
Profit and Loss Reserve £66,450
This totals £156,450 were has the other £86,350 gone?
I cannot see any need for the SOA to increase income, if anything they need to distribute their profit to the clubs as it is them that does the work.
ie a profit of £17,596 in 2018 and a profit of £40,180 in 2017.
At the end of 2018 the SOA’s total reserves amounted to £242,800,
Operations Reserve £80,000
Asset Replacement Reserve £10,000
Profit and Loss Reserve £66,450
This totals £156,450 were has the other £86,350 gone?
I cannot see any need for the SOA to increase income, if anything they need to distribute their profit to the clubs as it is them that does the work.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
Snail wrote:Some years ago the BOF levy was changed to a percentage of entry fee for a period, away from the previous system based on event levels. SOA were extremely vociferious in their objections, conveniently ignoring the fact that a major reason behind its introduction was that SOA and/or the S6D company had decided one year to designate all the 6-day events as the then equivalent of level C, in order to reduce their BOF levy! It would be somewhat ironic if they now found themeselves facing the same sorts of "devious" behaviours from their own clubs.
The S6D don't pay the SOA levy. If they did so the extra income would be greater than the TAX collected from clubs from all other Scottish Events.
BOC2018 didn't pay the SOA levy either.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
One of the issues either with using an entry-fee threshold (only levy events with fees > £10) or with charging levy as a percentage of the entry fee is that the costs of an event are subject to external factors which may not be within a club's control.
For example: for some clubs, all of their good areas are owned by a single landowner, who is able to insist on charging large fees for access. These clubs inevitably end up setting higher entry fees than clubs whose landowners charge little or nothing for access. With a levy that is proportional on entry fee, they would then end up paying more in levy - even if the club is making the same or less in "profit" than a club with lower entry fees.
I appreciate that the Land Reform Act may meant that access fees are less of an issue in Scotland, but - for example - frequently having to get portaloos delivered to remote areas for smallish events can have a similar effect.
For example: for some clubs, all of their good areas are owned by a single landowner, who is able to insist on charging large fees for access. These clubs inevitably end up setting higher entry fees than clubs whose landowners charge little or nothing for access. With a levy that is proportional on entry fee, they would then end up paying more in levy - even if the club is making the same or less in "profit" than a club with lower entry fees.
I appreciate that the Land Reform Act may meant that access fees are less of an issue in Scotland, but - for example - frequently having to get portaloos delivered to remote areas for smallish events can have a similar effect.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
SeanC wrote:It might be worth seeing what the other associations do.
Other associations take much less money from their members, in levies and membership.
Whatever SOA proposes, the usual suspects complain: their objections are really about the level of contribution, not the method of contribution.
I'd be surprised if other associations have anything like the reserves that SOA hold. There are good reasons for this which, since I'm not on the SOA board, I'm not going to try to state here for fear of getting it wrong.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
i don't mind paying, but it would be nice if someone at SOA / BOF could explain why we have to pay twice..
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
smf wrote:For the year to 31st December 2018, the SOA’s total income was £238,317 (2017 - £217,580) and expenditure was £220,721 (2017 - £177,400).
ie a profit of £17,596 in 2018 and a profit of £40,180 in 2017.
At the end of 2018 the SOA’s total reserves amounted to £242,800,
Operations Reserve £80,000
Asset Replacement Reserve £10,000
Profit and Loss Reserve £66,450
This totals £156,450 were has the other £86,350 gone?
I cannot see any need for the SOA to increase income, if anything they need to distribute their profit to the clubs as it is them that does the work.
SOA plans to spend more money on development (basically employing more staff to do the work that clubs aren't doing) - to try to help increase participation, attract new members, retain beginners etc. All things that are essential to prolong the life of orienteering.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
smf wrote:At the end of 2018 the SOA’s total reserves amounted to £242,800,
Operations Reserve £80,000
Asset Replacement Reserve £10,000
Profit and Loss Reserve £66,450
This totals £156,450 were has the other £86,350 gone?
It would be interesting to know what reserves clubs are sitting on - and how they are using/plan to use them to develop the sport...
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
BOC2018 didn't pay the SOA levy either.
Er, actually £1,579 levy was paid to the SOA
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
Big Jon wrote:SOA plans to spend more money on development (basically employing more staff to do the work that clubs aren't doing)
Which is all very good*, when clubs generally have more problems with finding volunteers than finding money**. But expanding greywolfs question: why do SOA members pay for this by association levy, when other associations get it from BOF?
* Especially because SOA have a knack of hiring good people into useful roles.
**He says, answering your second point.
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
A statement explaining the motivation has been published on the Scottish Orienteering website:
https://www.scottish-orienteering.org/news/make-your-vote-count-on-our-agm-proposals/#more-12290
https://www.scottish-orienteering.org/news/make-your-vote-count-on-our-agm-proposals/#more-12290
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Re: SOA levy 10% entry fees
When did SOA get a Marketing manager?!?
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