The JK 2019
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Re: The JK 2019
EMIT just not up to the job - hopeless all round. We too had a crying child to deal with. But I would like to say thank you for the great organisation, areas and thoughtful arenas/parking and mostly for the patience of the volunteers trying to un pick the debacle.
- amanda
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Re: The JK 2019
amanda wrote:EMIT just not up to the job - hopeless all round.
Well, the Emit-UK homepage has a glaring misuse of an apostrophe. Always a reason to steer clear. I wonder how much of the excessive entry fee went on hiring the units, and how much will be refunded given that the service was not only not provided, but no hint of a solution was provided over the weekend? I won't hold my breath.
Timing aside, a fantastic weekend with parking, arenas and courses seamlessly combined in a way that is so often difficult to achieve. Huge congrats and thanks to all of the volunteers. It's a huge shame that your efforts will forever be overshadowed by the supposed professionals failing to deliver what they were paid for. But it shouldn't.
Ultimately, for most of us, it is the taking part in exciting courses in enjoyable terrain that really counts, alongside the opportunity to socialise in pleasant surroundings with comfortable facilities. On those measures you delivered over and above my expectations. Thank you.
- spitalfields
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Re: The JK 2019
JamesE wrote:Scott wrote:WOC 2019 is using emiTag, with each runner carrying two units. It's been around for a few years now, so presumably it has already been used successfully for big events in other countries.
It is used at, for example, Norway's Night Hawk relays, and at the Pre-WOC world cup round in Norway last year. I also believe it is used at some Ski-O events
Not sure about the Ski-O, but the common feature of those other events in that they are in Norway. And none of them are as big as the JK - I think even NightHawk only has around 200 teams.
I heard a rumour - possibly distorted by chinese whispers! - that the JK data was also being stored in Norway, so that, e.g. data from the safety check punch at the starts went first to Norway and was downloaded from there to the arenas; and results had to be downloaded from Norway for local printing. There might be some advantages in the approach, say with automatic backups in a more reliable environment, but equally it might introduce problems, depending on the speed and reliability of arena connections.
- Snail
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Re: The JK 2019
So exactly why was Emit chosen and by whom?
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Mrs H - god
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Re: The JK 2019
Snail wrote:...
Not sure about the Ski-O, but the common feature of those other events in that they are in Norway. And none of them are as big as the JK - I think even NightHawk only has around 200 teams.
...
First time I saw EmitTag used was World Ski-O in 2011
All competitors had a tag and a backup tag (which had the light covered so you were supposed to ensure the main light flashed at every control).
People learned there quickly that touch free means you don't do a volleyball spike to smash the control units (they were hung in middle of track above route, and some had to jump to make contact as they were short).
I think it was used again at a BOC Sprint somewhere and don't recall too many issues (except people not getting close enough or not having their unit in the zone for long enough).
I've never heard of so many issues in an event.
JK
JK
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Re: The JK 2019
david_rosen wrote:More detailed facts about punching with an emiTag:
The emiTag flashes rapidly for 1.5 seconds during which time it cannot punch another control.
For a further 3.5 seconds it flashes more slowly and can punch another control in that period.
That is what I have been told.
That's good to know David.
SI "flashy dibbers" (not SIAC) flash for a set period of time (which can be configured with the SI s/w) - I had mine changed from the original default of 7s (I think that may have been reduced now) to 3.5 as that means I won't get issues of failing to punch the finish.
JK
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Re: The JK 2019
Mrs H wrote:So exactly why was Emit chosen and by whom?
I'm not sure it would be fair to question whoever selected Emit as a timing system, because it's ostensibly an "approved" system for level A events according to BOF rule 26.3. I say "ostensibly" because the rule should perhaps be clarified to indicate which versions of Emit are approved (and the same for SI systems): the rules seem to be written on the assumption that it's the old Emit system that's approved, not the new one.
If Emit as a timing system comes part-and-parcel with Emit as a results system then - given that rule 17.13 says "results must be displayed at the arena" and "they must be on the event website within 24 hours" - BOF should perhaps consider whether the approval of Emit for at least level A events needs to be reconsidered.
It's a shame for the organisers because the rest of the event was excellent.
- highfield
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Re: The JK 2019
buzz wrote:EmitGate
...
[list]
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Some others were reinstated on other courses– the majority of none elite DQs weren’t re-instated.
...
My course, and I believe several others had "missing 183" which wasn't actually on our course. We were told it'd be sorted later, and indeed it was.
What was weird though that even though later finished weren't DSQd for "missing" it (I'm guessing it had been tweaked in the course details in the d/l system), it didn't automatically retrospectively re-instate us - and that only happened hours later.
Anyway, my understanding was that at least the majority of those who were DSQd for missing controls that weren't on their sprint course were re-instated that evening.
JK
JK
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Re: The JK 2019
Emitags were used for at least one A event in the past, the Midlands Champs 2017 with ~800 participants (organised by OD), and I don't think there were any significant issues, at least the results were up the same day. A different results system (MERCS) was used though.
http://www.cix.co.uk/~neper/bentl17/
http://www.cix.co.uk/~neper/bentl17/
- MChub
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Re: The JK 2019
Perhaps the generous approach to medals will make up for things:
Screenshot just now:![Image](https://www.ontheredline.org.uk/images/other-images/JK2019Sprint_W65_230419.jpg)
Screenshot just now:
![Image](https://www.ontheredline.org.uk/images/other-images/JK2019Sprint_W65_230419.jpg)
- afterthought
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Re: The JK 2019
There are photo-reports on the top open classes for each of the 4 days at https://www.ontheredline.org.uk/news
- afterthought
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Re: The JK 2019
I've never been convinced by the arguments in favour of touch-free orienteering. It introduces an element of luck into the sport, and there are too many of those already. I think there should be a rule that competitors must touch the checkpoints. This would ensure that they are always close enough for the punch to register. (If the card is working, that is.)
- Adrian
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Re: The JK 2019
afterthought wrote:Perhaps the generous approach to medals will make up for things:
Screenshot just now:
Having just re-checked the results on my course (11), I can explain what's happening there. Some people ran a course other than the correct one for their class - for example, there was an M10 and an M16 on the W50/M65 course - and they're credited with 1st place in that category in the course results, which I suppose can be considered true, although I would have marked them as NC. When you look at the results for their age class, they're included: that's plainly wrong, because they didn't run that particular course.
- roadrunner
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Re: The JK 2019
david_rosen wrote:More detailed facts about punching with an emiTag:
The emiTag flashes rapidly for 1.5 seconds during which time it cannot punch another control.
For a further 3.5 seconds it flashes more slowly and can punch another control in that period.
That is what I have been told.
Well that certainly rules out the risk of being too quick and thereby not registering a control, which is good - though it still leaves the number that people actually failed to register punches unexplained.
I know there have been similar issues with SIAC; maybe an independent scientific study is called for? After all, no-one can say for sure how fast their arm was moving, or how close they passed to the control (and in what orientation the SI Card/tag was) in real competition, and all of these might affect the performance.
- roadrunner
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Re: The JK 2019
Adrian wrote:I've never been convinced by the arguments in favour of touch-free orienteering. It introduces an element of luck into the sport, and there are too many of those already. I think there should be a rule that competitors must touch the checkpoints. This would ensure that they are always close enough for the punch to register. (If the card is working, that is.)
I was touching every control with my Emitag (fixed to the inside of my wrist) on Monday. One control still didn't register and I had to go back and re-punch.
I agree with your sentiment though. Touch free punching might be an advantage in a Sprint Relay but I remain to be convinced that it is needed in forest orienteering.
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