To answer the question. Yes to pictorial control descriptions at major events for junior courses. Assuming the event is aimed at the more experienced juniors, I would imagine they would want their course to be as much like the adult experience as possible to give the big event feel.
If you're also using the colour courses for local newcomers, then perhaps you could have separate newcomers courses. For example "short newcomers" being aimed at family groups and new juniors, and basically the yellow or white with text control descriptions plus any other help information. "Long newcomers" could be aimed at adults and basically be a longer TD2/3 course with mostly easy path junction type controls and route choice.
We've found that newcomers will come to our bigger regional events in roughly similar numbers to our local events so long as there is marketing and it's appropriate, so worth doing.
On the point of pictorial control descriptions being intuitive, I don't agree, or at least there are enough which aren't intuitive to make pictorial descriptions one more hurdle for the newbie and add to the stress on their first event, for example:
gully (upturned V, who would have guessed that?)
small gully (dots and lines, completely different to the big gully)
re entrant (since you can't tell which is up and which is down, could equally be a spur!)
vegetation boundary (might think it was a path).
pit: (what's a V?)
rootstock (I bet most orienteers don't know this one)
Fence: (or is that a cliff?)
The map is covered with confusing symbols too, but at least (usually) there is a key.
Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
SeanC wrote:On the point of pictorial control descriptions being intuitive, I don't agree, or at least there are enough which aren't intuitive to make pictorial descriptions one more hurdle for the newbie and add to the stress on their first event, for example:
gully (upturned V, who would have guessed that?)
small gully (dots and lines, completely different to the big gully)
re entrant (since you can't tell which is up and which is down, could equally be a spur!)
vegetation boundary (might think it was a path).
pit: (what's a V?)
rootstock (I bet most orienteers don't know this one)
Fence: (or is that a cliff?)
The map is covered with confusing symbols too, but at least (usually) there is a key.
The one that confused me when I was a (relative) beginner was "platform". I expected something like a raised structure rather than a flat patch of ground. Admittedly, text descriptions would have been no better without more explanation.
I'm still not confident of some of the more obscure ones, but given that whatever it is must be at the centre of the control circle, it's usually easy enough to work it out.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
If you are not confident of control description symbols then download them from IOF page:
https://orienteering.org/wp-content/upl ... s_copy.pdf
Make a training session out of it - 3 sets of questions - easy (white/yellow), middling, (orange, light green) and hard - TD5. A fun way to learn the more commonly used symbols and hopefully introduce newcomers (and more experienced competitors) to less commonly used symbols.
https://orienteering.org/wp-content/upl ... s_copy.pdf
Make a training session out of it - 3 sets of questions - easy (white/yellow), middling, (orange, light green) and hard - TD5. A fun way to learn the more commonly used symbols and hopefully introduce newcomers (and more experienced competitors) to less commonly used symbols.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
There are plenty of online quizes to practice as well! Here's a particularly good one: https://www.maprunner.co.uk/cd/
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
AndyNash wrote:I'm planning the November Classic and was wondering if there are any official guidelines on whether junior courses should have written control descriptions in addition to pictoral, or whether it is entirely down to event officials' discretion?
Although lots of people have given views on whether juniors should or shouldn't have written descriptions, I don't think anyone has actually answered this question.
As far as I can see, the BO rules just say that "Control descriptions must be prepared for all courses in accordance with the “International Specification for Control Descriptions” (Most recent edition)," or in other words, pictorial descriptions. So events that also provide written descriptions are going beyond what is required, and events that don't provide pictorial descriptions aren't following the rules.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
Spookster wrote:As far as I can see, the BO rules just say that "Control descriptions must be prepared for all courses in accordance with the “International Specification for Control Descriptions” (Most recent edition)," or in other words, pictorial descriptions. So events that also provide written descriptions are going beyond what is required, and events that don't provide pictorial descriptions aren't following the rules.
There's a man with a brain equipped to cope with the minefield that is the rules of orienteering! Have you thought of applying for the vacant post of BOF chair....?
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
andypat wrote:There's a man with a brain equipped to cope with the minefield that is the rules of orienteering! Have you thought of applying for the vacant post of BOF chair....?
Haven't you read CompassSport magazine? Apparently I'm now Mr. Angry!
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
Spookster wrote:
Haven't you read CompassSport magazine? Apparently I'm now Mr. Angry!
![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
Yeah an interesting article. Have to say while its an interesting concept to have two controls one on top of each other, I think it was ill advised and probably a misinterpretation of a rule that wasn't really designed for that scenario. I'm all for controls where you can look up and see your control on the next level or down and vice versa (my first control at the Olympic park British Sprints springs to mind), but putting a control on each level is asking for trouble and I wouldn't have allowed it if I was controller.
Must have been quite a dificult one to take on the chin (given it was a misspunch) in the circumstances where it was devious to the very limit of the rules.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
From ISSOM: "Control points shall not be placed under or above the main ‘running’ level."
Hence having two controls, one above the other, is definitely against the rules.
Hence having two controls, one above the other, is definitely against the rules.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
I think the rules / guidelines need revising. There are plenty of places where e.g. the main North-south running level is "below" but the main east-west running level would be "above".
There have been loads of urban events where controls have been "on top of" or "below" bridges, in some cases for safety reasons.
There have been loads of urban events where controls have been "on top of" or "below" bridges, in some cases for safety reasons.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
andypat wrote: Have to say while its an interesting concept to have two controls one on top of each other,
Having once put three consecutive controls on different sides of the same fence corner, I don't mind a bit of comedy value controls.
But this was of no interest to any competitor. Nobody knew about the "wrong" control - either you went to the right one and never saw it, or you found out at the end when you got DQed. The only interest is for the planner.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
graeme wrote:But this was of no interest to any competitor. Nobody knew about the "wrong" control - either you went to the right one and never saw it, or you found out at the end when you got DQed.
Or- like I did- you went to the wrong one, realised the control number wasn't what you were expecting, checked the control description, were grateful for the time spent on practice quizzes when you spotted the 'under' symbol, relocated to the correct control, then continued on your run, relieved to have avoided suffering the consequences of your own inattention to the detail clearly provided...
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
I'm a firm believer in pictorial descriptions for everybody and that giving youngsters text is not helping. Very young juniors may not be able to read, or may not have English as a first language and will probably not be familiar with the obscure terminology we use to describe geographic features.
When they start on the white course the don't need control descriptions - just follow the path till they bump into a control, which should set them in the direction of the next one. The only thing they should be checking is the control code - and that is in column B. However, they are starting to get used to the method of presentation and might start to learn the symbols for road, path and junction.
When they move onto yellow they still don't need the descriptions. The control will be visible from the handrail they are following so they are still looking for a kite rather than a feature. However, the information is still there, and they can start to become familiar with some more of the symbols and associating them with features on the ground.
Now onto orange and the description starts to be of use. So it is a good idea that they have already gained some familiarity with the system while progressing through white and yellow. Still at this level navigating to whatever is at the centre of the circle on the map should work, so they can gradually accumulate more symbols.
If we are "helpful" to juniors by providing text descriptions at all local events then their first encounter with pictorial descriptions could be in the start line at the JK. Not the best place to be learning an entire new system.
When they start on the white course the don't need control descriptions - just follow the path till they bump into a control, which should set them in the direction of the next one. The only thing they should be checking is the control code - and that is in column B. However, they are starting to get used to the method of presentation and might start to learn the symbols for road, path and junction.
When they move onto yellow they still don't need the descriptions. The control will be visible from the handrail they are following so they are still looking for a kite rather than a feature. However, the information is still there, and they can start to become familiar with some more of the symbols and associating them with features on the ground.
Now onto orange and the description starts to be of use. So it is a good idea that they have already gained some familiarity with the system while progressing through white and yellow. Still at this level navigating to whatever is at the centre of the circle on the map should work, so they can gradually accumulate more symbols.
If we are "helpful" to juniors by providing text descriptions at all local events then their first encounter with pictorial descriptions could be in the start line at the JK. Not the best place to be learning an entire new system.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
King Penguin wrote:I think the rules / guidelines need revising. There are plenty of places where e.g. the main North-south running level is "below" but the main east-west running level would be "above".
There have been loads of urban events where controls have been "on top of" or "below" bridges, in some cases for safety reasons.
I think in those circumstances it is even more important to locate the control so that the site is unambiguous just by looking at the circle on thew map. In the compasssport example the only consequence was a bit of frustration at failing to solve the logic puzzle set by the planner, but if you navigated to underneath a bridge crossing then realised your mistake the optimum route to get to the top of the bridge could be by crossing the very feature the planner was trying to force you to avoid.
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Re: Major events: control descriptions for junior courses
Thank you everyone for your varying and interesting thoughts. In conclusion the separate control descriptions sheets will all be pictorial. However, the maps are large enough that on the junior courses I will provide both pictorial and written descriptions, with the latter lower down. This approach means that everyone will see the pictorial descriptions and be encouraged to think about and learn from them, but with the back-up of textual support for those who require it.
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