Phil Conway contacted me to say he's interested in people's views on the BO Youth Strategy. I guess this could include what's in the documents, and what's not in.
See https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/keydocuments
Youth Strategy
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Re: Youth Strategy
I've just taken a look at this and the intentions are very 'worthy' for sure. BUT, it's not very exciting is it?
When I think about the things that kept my kids raring to go it was all about camps and tours and hangin' out with friends and for the more able it was definitely about the Future Champions Cup and that distant glint of a gold ticket to JWOC if you won (which of course covered that crucial transit to university).
BOF doesn't seem to get involved with any of those things any more.
When I think about the things that kept my kids raring to go it was all about camps and tours and hangin' out with friends and for the more able it was definitely about the Future Champions Cup and that distant glint of a gold ticket to JWOC if you won (which of course covered that crucial transit to university).
BOF doesn't seem to get involved with any of those things any more.
-
Mrs H - god
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:30 pm
Re: Youth Strategy
Mrs H wrote:When I think about the things that kept my kids raring to go it was all about camps and tours and hangin' out with friends and for the more able it was definitely about the Future Champions Cup and that distant glint of a gold ticket to JWOC if you won (which of course covered that crucial transit to university).
Absolutely
- Sloop
- red
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:50 pm
Re: Youth Strategy
See page 12. Phil appears to be interested in more than the dozen or so juniors inspired by a "golden ticket to JWOC"
To avoid waffle, it would be helpful to state specific targets, e.g. how many non-elite M/W18/20s we want. Notably, there was nobody on M20L or W20L at BOC. Since the current squad-based system is perfectly designed to deliver that, maybe it's what BOF want. But if not, say so and ask what to do about it.
To avoid waffle, it would be helpful to state specific targets, e.g. how many non-elite M/W18/20s we want. Notably, there was nobody on M20L or W20L at BOC. Since the current squad-based system is perfectly designed to deliver that, maybe it's what BOF want. But if not, say so and ask what to do about it.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4727
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: Youth Strategy
graeme wrote: e.g. how many non-elite M/W18/20s we want. Notably, there was nobody on M20L or W20L at BOC.
It isn't very obvious to me who (if anyone) the 18L and 20L classes at major events are aimed at.
At the JK I got the impression that the 18E/20E courses were the standard ones with the 18L/20L courses being fitted in between them and the S courses. I have just had a look at the results and seen:
* On day 2 both 18E and 20E courses were the same as the corresponding 16A; the 18L and 20L courses were shorter.
* On day 3 the W18L and W20L were shorter than W16A
Thus if the 16A courses are appropriate for a competent, but not aspiring elite, orienteer, the same would also be the case for the 18E and 20E courses (with the possible exception of M18E/M20E on day 3). It would not be reasonable to expect a non-elite junior to move down to shorter courses when they move up age class.
- dch
- off string
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:12 am
Re: Youth Strategy
I guess BOF have limited levers to pull as the vast majority of junior orienteers do club, and occasionally, regional orienteering, with the "offer" largely being decided by clubs and regions. Much of this sort of document therefore tends to be a bit vague on detail and summed up as "we'll do our best to help clubs / spread good ideas from one club to another".
However I did pick up some interesting concrete proposals re competitions.
"Improving YBT & Peter Palmer events with greater levels of participation"
I hope that means liberalisation of the rules to enable more clubs to field teams. Alternatively that could mean more heats/rounds. Either/both would help fill the gap in junior competitions between the local leagues (often good) and national level competitions like JK/British etc (also usually good).
"Regional Schools Championships" - sounds good too
However I did pick up some interesting concrete proposals re competitions.
"Improving YBT & Peter Palmer events with greater levels of participation"
I hope that means liberalisation of the rules to enable more clubs to field teams. Alternatively that could mean more heats/rounds. Either/both would help fill the gap in junior competitions between the local leagues (often good) and national level competitions like JK/British etc (also usually good).
"Regional Schools Championships" - sounds good too
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: Youth Strategy
SeanC wrote:I guess BOF have limited levers to pull
Precisely, which begs the question why in February the board met and recommended a 50% rise in junior membership fees and only a 10% rise in adult fees
BO's own figures show junior participation is falling faster per member than seniors, so juniors on average are getting less value for money year on year. Superficial comparisons with other sports have been made. British Triathlon claims 200,000 people take part in triathlons each year, with 150,000 considered "committed", yet they have only 25,000 members, not a very high take up rate(!), but very different sports.
Before BO's policy of lowering fees and opting more for a pay by play model in 2012, there was a family membership going back decades. Since then the cost of family membership has risen (£30 in 2011), whilst adult membership has been halved from £21.50 in 2011to £11.
BO may have limited levers, but it has been pulling one the opposite way.
- maprun
- diehard
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:37 am
Re: Youth Strategy
SeanC wrote:"Improving YBT & Peter Palmer events with greater levels of participation"
I hope that means liberalisation of the rules to enable more clubs to field teams.
Yes, there's a new 'Daybreak Relay' class at the Peter Palmer Relays with no night legs and TD3 and below - to encourage smaller clubs to take part and larger clubs to bring more teams to what is one of the best junior events on the calendar,
Inspired by Phil C's enthusiasm, SYO managed to find suitable accommodation adjacent to one of our best areas and we're hoping to offer a high quality event with exciting head to head racing and a commentary with each team passing through the arena 16 times during the race!
https://www.southyorkshireorienteers.org.uk/events/event/704-peter-palmer-relays
We're hoping for a record turn out this year so please pass on the invite to your club coaches and bring as many teams as you can. It would be particularly good to see some of the Scottish clubs if you can make it down.
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: Youth Strategy
thanks for letting us know. That might get the interest of even those of us from the deep south.
I found the news article which contained info on the new relay class https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... &item=4150
A couple of quick questions if you (or anyone else) knows..
- Do you know what time the 'Daybreak Relay' will start?
- It says ad hoc. Just checking, is that any junior age class or is it still M/W12+?
- Are mixed club teams allowed in the Daybreak Relays?
You might want to prod your club to updating the event details with a bit more info on the expected courses since there is only a link to the BO Peter Palmer relay rules which are from 2014 and don't include details of this new class
I found the news article which contained info on the new relay class https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... &item=4150
A couple of quick questions if you (or anyone else) knows..
- Do you know what time the 'Daybreak Relay' will start?
- It says ad hoc. Just checking, is that any junior age class or is it still M/W12+?
- Are mixed club teams allowed in the Daybreak Relays?
You might want to prod your club to updating the event details with a bit more info on the expected courses since there is only a link to the BO Peter Palmer relay rules which are from 2014 and don't include details of this new class
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: Youth Strategy
SeanC wrote:A couple of quick questions if you (or anyone else) knows..
- Do you know what time the 'Daybreak Relay' will start?
- It says ad hoc. Just checking, is that any junior age class or is it still M/W12+?
- Are mixed club teams allowed in the Daybreak Relays?
You might want to prod your club to updating the event details with a bit more info on the expected courses since there is only a link to the BO Peter Palmer relay rules which are from 2014 and don't include details of this new class
We're still sorting out the details of the Daybreak relay - its a new concept which we're trialling - I guess if it works well then it can be considered for the rules for future events.
Its definitely 4 person using the Red, Orange and Yellow courses from the main race. I expect we'll follow the guidelines as far as possible so for example it will probably still be MW12+ to suit the nature of the event (overnight accommodation etc).
I'll post more details as soon as possible and ask the organiser to add more details to the web site. Thanks for your patience.
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: Youth Strategy
Perhaps the daybreak relay would benefit from its own thread?
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
- god
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:58 pm
- Location: Houston, we have a problem.
Re: Youth Strategy
SeanC wrote:Phil Conway contacted me to say he's interested in people's views on the BO Youth Strategy.
I've not got through the whole document yet, but initial reactions to the opening pages, and things I'll be looking for when going into the detail:
Perhaps most important - it's really good to see a coherent strategy being built up - absolutely vital. i'm also reading lots of good ideas, so any critique needs to be taken in that context.
So, a first thought. Reading the initial pages, I'm surprised to see the ongoing emphasis on schools orienteering. Where you've got an enthusiastic teacher who will drive a school club, great, and they need full support - there's been some really good recruitment of juniors into the sport through these enthusiasts. Otherwise, in the short term, it may well boost numbers, but I've seen no evidence to suggest that it has any longer term impact. It may well sow some seeds (and the proposed uni club programme - a really important inclusion - could benefit from this), but to me the drive has to be through families. How else are you going to get juniors to events? Certainly, one of my local clubs has moved away from schools as being largely non-productive, and is now focusing on Saturday morning 'junior league' events. Small numbers, but the feedback is that this is proving more effective.
The only mention of families in the early pages is attached to the Xplorer Challenge, and I've never been convinced about the worth of that. I may be wrong, so do we have any figures to show how effective that's been in getting young people and families into orienteering, particularly is it any more effective than other methods? If there aren't, then it seems to me to be a distraction.
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3224
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
Re: Youth Strategy
Welcome back AWK
I'm being a bit lazy, but in the short version of the youth strategy document, there are 15 instances of the word families, and only 9 of school.
Somewhere in the document it says "A junior programme can take many forms, there is no one set formula". I hope that the development officer for your area will see what your strategy is (ie working with families) and build on that, rather than imposing a set vision.
Targeting families has its challenges too. We're getting lots via Facebook advertising, but many treat it like a visit to the seaside - something they love doing and really enjoy, but only something done occasionally, or just once. I don't mind that, but others might.
I think the document, and BO, are missing a publicity strategy. Perhaps it's elsewhere? Working on the "product" is very good, but ultimately will lead to frustration if there's no corresponding marketing to generate the new business.
I think BO have a fundamental problem with marketing - I think they are constrained by SportEngland rules (?). I don't see any BO employee on social media, either here or elsewhere like the Facebook publicity group, which is a pity because they could be using social media to spread good practice, such as ways successful clubs are marketing.
I'm being a bit lazy, but in the short version of the youth strategy document, there are 15 instances of the word families, and only 9 of school.
Somewhere in the document it says "A junior programme can take many forms, there is no one set formula". I hope that the development officer for your area will see what your strategy is (ie working with families) and build on that, rather than imposing a set vision.
Targeting families has its challenges too. We're getting lots via Facebook advertising, but many treat it like a visit to the seaside - something they love doing and really enjoy, but only something done occasionally, or just once. I don't mind that, but others might.
I think the document, and BO, are missing a publicity strategy. Perhaps it's elsewhere? Working on the "product" is very good, but ultimately will lead to frustration if there's no corresponding marketing to generate the new business.
I think BO have a fundamental problem with marketing - I think they are constrained by SportEngland rules (?). I don't see any BO employee on social media, either here or elsewhere like the Facebook publicity group, which is a pity because they could be using social media to spread good practice, such as ways successful clubs are marketing.
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: Youth Strategy
SeanC wrote:Welcome back AWK
Thank you!
I'm being a bit lazy, but in the short version of the youth strategy document, there are 15 instances of the word families, and only 9 of school.
I haven't read the short one, I've just started the long one, and those were my thoughts after reading the initial pages, where the only mention of families was in the context of 'leveraging' Xplorer Challenge, whilst schools were at the top of the list. The detail may be less skewed.
Somewhere in the document it says "A junior programme can take many forms, there is no one set formula". I hope that the development officer for your area will see what your strategy is (ie working with families) and build on that, rather than imposing a set vision.
Yes - and a refreshing change of tack.
Targeting families has its challenges too. We're getting lots via Facebook advertising, but many treat it like a visit to the seaside - something they love doing and really enjoy, but only something done occasionally, or just once. I don't mind that, but others might.
Always been true, not just in orienteering, and even more so nowadays with so many different activities available. And rightly so - children should be trying lots of different things not just one sport. (Anecdotally, I didn't reach my 50th event until after getting to university, having started at 12, and only got hooked for life because of the uni club). However, my point is that you'll generally get a higher proportion sticking with it than via most schools work. Those who do stick at it from school are the rare ones who go to events at weekends with teachers who orienteer, not the ones who have done it through schools development and orienteering at school. Even then, numbers are low.
It's not just about 'going to events'. If children have parents who have tried and/or are familiar with orienteering, then they are much more likely to transport children to a club's activities (eg coaching) than if the child has only done the sport at school, and the adult will provide the communication link between club and child. There's no real connection via schools.
Have to confess that, having worked both sides of the fence as orienteer and teacher, I now think most schools development work is a complete waste of time. It has to come from the inside, from teachers (generic term for anybody involved in the school) who want to take children orienteering. Schools are seen as the channel to reach children, and for a sport like orienteering they just aren't.
I'll try and read the rest of the document this week.
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3224
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
Re: Youth Strategy
Saxons have an interesting combination of the schools and families approaches. Two of our members (ex teachers) have gone in to schools and persuaded parents to drive their children to our local events (the ones with a schools league). Many of these parents don't compete, they just sit and chat with each other. You could see this as a club within a club, with the parents job just to drive.
I think this is more sustainable as (some of) the parents then carry on taking the children to events when they move school, plus removing the pressure for the parents to compete removes a significant barrier to participation.
It has to be said though that only a couple of schools have been really receptive to this approach ( Lordswood and Tunbury junior schools).
Our local Kent Orienteering League events seem to have a really healthy mix of juniors at the moment including
- juniors from traditional orienteering families
- juniors competing in family groups usually for their first event, mostly via Facebook advertising
- juniors from Lordswood and Tunbury schools, driven to the events by (mostly) non orienteering parents.
- juniors from Hackney schools, driven in a minibus by a teacher.
So much so, that a passer by seeing the crowd at the start commented on Saturday "is it just for children"?
I think it's worth trying all approaches if you can IMHO
I think this is more sustainable as (some of) the parents then carry on taking the children to events when they move school, plus removing the pressure for the parents to compete removes a significant barrier to participation.
It has to be said though that only a couple of schools have been really receptive to this approach ( Lordswood and Tunbury junior schools).
Our local Kent Orienteering League events seem to have a really healthy mix of juniors at the moment including
- juniors from traditional orienteering families
- juniors competing in family groups usually for their first event, mostly via Facebook advertising
- juniors from Lordswood and Tunbury schools, driven to the events by (mostly) non orienteering parents.
- juniors from Hackney schools, driven in a minibus by a teacher.
So much so, that a passer by seeing the crowd at the start commented on Saturday "is it just for children"?
I think it's worth trying all approaches if you can IMHO
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests