British Orienteering Championships website
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
I believe that there will be a total listing of results. Robin does actually have to travel, eat and sleep so give him a chance. I hope Mharky wasn't too disadvantaged by the 17 km+ Relay course - the team appeared to win and somehow fences were crossed and the laser printed maps were legible for the multiple course combinations on the Long Distance race.
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
I believe that there will be a total listing of results. Robin does actually have to travel, eat and sleep so give him a chance.
But the production of the pdf file could be coded into the results system so generated automatically. No need for any extra work on the day.
Something that SI could implement fairly easily.
- SJC
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
No, I wasn't disadvantaged. I had the short gaffel...
...but there were many people and teams who were disadvantaged by the worst gaffling I have ever seen.
The following is taken from the Rules of British Orienteering:
Whilst some of the differences between gaffels during the middle parts of the courses were significant, the loops after the spectator control were absolutely heinous.
Was this the reason you decided to not publish the individual leg lengths?
It's a shame really, because each of the courses by their own right were fantastic. I certainly can't recall a better JK or BOC relay that I have run. But relays are not about individual courses, as the above extracts demonstrates.
...but there were many people and teams who were disadvantaged by the worst gaffling I have ever seen.
The following is taken from the Rules of British Orienteering:
12.6.4 wrote:Head-to-head racing is an important element in Relay events and, in particular, individual laps should have similar challenges in the later part of the course
12.6.5 wrote:Consequently, it is not good practice to have significant differences in leg lengths or physical / Technical Difficulty between controls in the very late stages of any lap. If control site options are limited towards the end of courses, it is acceptable to have controls common to all laps"
Whilst some of the differences between gaffels during the middle parts of the courses were significant, the loops after the spectator control were absolutely heinous.
Was this the reason you decided to not publish the individual leg lengths?
It's a shame really, because each of the courses by their own right were fantastic. I certainly can't recall a better JK or BOC relay that I have run. But relays are not about individual courses, as the above extracts demonstrates.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
The BOC relays were a bit of a lottery given the odd gaffling. In our class leg lengths were 4.4, 5.05, 5.0. Final Details said some courses may be up to 5% longer or shorter than an exact 1/3 split. A difference of 600m looks to be much greater than 5% to me. Consequences? (1) Had teams known which was the short gaffle they would have allocated team members accordingly. (2) It was confusing for people to understand why there were such large variation in the time it took competitors from spectator control to finish.
Other than that the area and courses were good for a Relay, although those with no knowledge of the area would have liked to know from the map which white areas were fast running grass and which were slow brashings.
Other than that the area and courses were good for a Relay, although those with no knowledge of the area would have liked to know from the map which white areas were fast running grass and which were slow brashings.
- RoT
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
As for previous comments, myself and everyone I spoke to enjoyed the weekend. Let's face it - if you don't enjoy a mainly sunny weekend in May on good areas in Deeside with well planned courses then perhaps your doing the wrong sport!
Thank you to everyone involved in putting on the weekend. Hopefully you have booked the sun again for next weekend.
I am curious about why the individual prize-giving wasn't on the Saturday after the race when people had time after the event to hang around without having to think about starting long drives, catching flight, trains etc. I'm sure there must have been a reason but it would have been nice to have known far enough in advance when making travel arrangements.
I think course 3 has around 16% variation - 4.4, 4.35 and 3.775. The difference in winning times for the legs above seem to be about 5 minutes - which could be easily be a minute or more for your strongest and weakest runner.
Can I also add consequence (3)-
If you don't know there are such big variations your race tactics might be wrong. I went out with about a biggish lead on leg 2 of M40 judging from when people went through the spectator control. So I knew I could take it pretty easy and just be careful knowing that we had Nick on last leg. Jason reduced a 5 minute lead to 3 minutes (and he may have been taking it easy as well). Had they had their 500m shorter leg on the last then it could have been tight... I guess the lesson I've learnt is to not make assumptions and run hard whatever. Hopefully others will have learnt as well...
Thank you to everyone involved in putting on the weekend. Hopefully you have booked the sun again for next weekend.
I am curious about why the individual prize-giving wasn't on the Saturday after the race when people had time after the event to hang around without having to think about starting long drives, catching flight, trains etc. I'm sure there must have been a reason but it would have been nice to have known far enough in advance when making travel arrangements.
RoT wrote:The BOC relays were a bit of a lottery given the odd gaffling. In our class leg lengths were 4.4, 5.05, 5.0. Final Details said some courses may be up to 5% longer or shorter than an exact 1/3 split. A difference of 600m looks to be much greater than 5% to me. Consequences? (1) Had teams known which was the short gaffle they would have allocated team members accordingly. (2) It was confusing for people to understand why there were such large variation in the time it took competitors from spectator control to finish.
I think course 3 has around 16% variation - 4.4, 4.35 and 3.775. The difference in winning times for the legs above seem to be about 5 minutes - which could be easily be a minute or more for your strongest and weakest runner.
Can I also add consequence (3)-
If you don't know there are such big variations your race tactics might be wrong. I went out with about a biggish lead on leg 2 of M40 judging from when people went through the spectator control. So I knew I could take it pretty easy and just be careful knowing that we had Nick on last leg. Jason reduced a 5 minute lead to 3 minutes (and he may have been taking it easy as well). Had they had their 500m shorter leg on the last then it could have been tight... I guess the lesson I've learnt is to not make assumptions and run hard whatever. Hopefully others will have learnt as well...
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
RoT wrote:... although those with no knowledge of the area would have liked to know from the map which white areas were fast running grass and which were slow brashings.
The following would have certainly giving you a good start:
a) Final details terrain description
b) Routegadget
c) Google maps
Although the mature deciduous woodland at the end was extremely fast, the vast majority pine forest was still within ISOM 2017 specifications for white forest (800-1000m in 4 minutes), and that's without adjusting for climb. If there were any significant areas of brashings then maybe they could have been marked, but they would have also been subject to the minimum area (1.5 mm x 1 mm [footprint 22.5 m x 15 m]).
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
That was the most enjoyable weekend's orienteering for a very long time. Congratulations to freefall and the team putting it on in the same week as presenting our WOC bid to the IOF delegation.
I have planned here before, and runnability is a bit of an issue. I looked at putting a screen on, but like mharky says, it's very patchy and obscures more detail than its worth. The slowest bits are still just about white, the main issue is the contrast with how very fast the nicest bits are. The change from west to east was explained in broad terms in the details, and I didn't think there were any legs where going a long way round on tracks to avoid brash was best. I think this was the fairest thing to do.
PS Who thinks its a good idea to make kids non-competitive on ad hoc?
RoT wrote:... although those with no knowledge of the area would have liked to know from the map which white areas were fast running grass and which were slow brashings.
I have planned here before, and runnability is a bit of an issue. I looked at putting a screen on, but like mharky says, it's very patchy and obscures more detail than its worth. The slowest bits are still just about white, the main issue is the contrast with how very fast the nicest bits are. The change from west to east was explained in broad terms in the details, and I didn't think there were any legs where going a long way round on tracks to avoid brash was best. I think this was the fairest thing to do.
PS Who thinks its a good idea to make kids non-competitive on ad hoc?
Last edited by graeme on Mon May 21, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
[quote="mharky"]
The following would have certainly giving you a good start:
a) Final details terrain description
b) Routegadget
c) Google maps
Most of us mere ‘bog standard orienteers’ dont research areas in detail before events (b, c) and rely on what is presented on the map to make route choices! I accept (a) gave some useful information on the area, but not enough to determine routes for individual legs, especially the first one (start to 230). Straight through white (significant brashings) or a north or south track run.
But it’s a minor quibble and didn’t detract from a good technical course with some fun head to head racing.
The following would have certainly giving you a good start:
a) Final details terrain description
b) Routegadget
c) Google maps
Most of us mere ‘bog standard orienteers’ dont research areas in detail before events (b, c) and rely on what is presented on the map to make route choices! I accept (a) gave some useful information on the area, but not enough to determine routes for individual legs, especially the first one (start to 230). Straight through white (significant brashings) or a north or south track run.
But it’s a minor quibble and didn’t detract from a good technical course with some fun head to head racing.
- RoT
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Because we had to move the race arena on Saturday afternoon/evening we needed time and there would have been unacceptable delays had we staged prizegiving on the Saturday. As it was we completed the main parts of the move and set-up by 21.45 hrs just before dark and then spent a further 90 minutes on the Sunday morning. There was a real risk that if prizegiving was on Saturday we would not have had enough time on the Sunday so it might have led to delays in the starts and a later finish. Course combinations,gaffles and map standards are outside the remit of the Event Coordinator (I think)
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
SJC wrote:I believe that there will be a total listing of results. Robin does actually have to travel, eat and sleep so give him a chance.
But the production of the pdf file could be coded into the results system so generated automatically. No need for any extra work on the day.
Something that SI could implement fairly easily.
Yes, it was more about this, rather than any criticism meant of the organisers. PDFs do sometimes appear, but often not until a few days later - so unless it says something like: "PDF file (to follow)" I suspect most people will not return to look at the results page a second time!
For the British Championships an automatically produced simple file of the top 3 on E/L/A courses might also be appropriate - at the earliest possible stage. (Possibly this is already generated for the prizegiving anyway). Even if we could get journalists, or BOF Office , interested in reporting, we can't really expect them trawl through dozens of files to extract the results.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Best weekend of orienteering I've had in a long time.
Thanks to all those who supported these events.
Shame about the Relay gaffling - not providing true head-to-head racing or fair competition.
Shame about the Long prize giving - the pinnacle of orienteering and we can't deliver a prize-giving on the same day. Especially as everyone planning to run in the relays were staying in the vicinity that evening. I know of a number of winners who weren't able to make the relays and missed out on stepping onto a podium and being rightly cheered by their peers. And all the poor English folk with long trips home after the relays....
Why can't we ever get the prize giving right and stagger its delivery as courses leaders become clear and give it the priority it deserves?
Shame two small things can damp an absolutely fantastic weekend.
Thanks to all those who supported these events.
Shame about the Relay gaffling - not providing true head-to-head racing or fair competition.
Shame about the Long prize giving - the pinnacle of orienteering and we can't deliver a prize-giving on the same day. Especially as everyone planning to run in the relays were staying in the vicinity that evening. I know of a number of winners who weren't able to make the relays and missed out on stepping onto a podium and being rightly cheered by their peers. And all the poor English folk with long trips home after the relays....
Why can't we ever get the prize giving right and stagger its delivery as courses leaders become clear and give it the priority it deserves?
Shame two small things can damp an absolutely fantastic weekend.
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Lard if we had added an extra £3-£4 on the entry fee to cover the cost of extra staff and equipment we could have had the prizegiving on Saturday but that would have generated another lot of negative comment.
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Freefall wrote:We did everything to keep costs down and would be happy enough to share our finance figures.
I'd be VERY interested in seeing these please.
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mharky - team nopesport
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