Yes - that old crossing chestnut. This was discussed with the Controller. The rules do not state that purple lines have to be used with mandatory crossings. In a small area like Torphantrick with lots of lines going everywhere I am not sure purple overprints would improve clarity.
Thank you to Mharky for his helpful comment - next time I Coordinate the British Orienteering Relay Championships I will bear it in mind.
British Orienteering Championships website
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Freefall wrote:The rules do not state that purple lines have to be used with mandatory crossings.
This is what the rules say:
British Orienteering Rules, Appendix B wrote:3.1.21 A boundary which is forbidden for competitors to cross and which affects the courses must be marked as “forbidden to cross” on the competition map. This is indicated by overprinting the mapped feature with a solid purple line, except on Sprint/Urban maps where solid overprinted lines are only used where a boundary has changed from being passable to impassable and the map does not show this. Crossing points must be indicated by curved brackets.
- Whether crossing points are mandatory or not needs to be unambiguous both in the event details and on the map
- Where there is only one valid option for crossing an “un-crossable” boundary, the line between controls should be bent to this point. In this instance there should be no advantage to be gained by not using the crossing point and it is unlikely that the previous control will be more than 100m before the boundary. If in doubt, consider placing a control at the crossing point.
- Where there is more than one option for crossing the “un-crossable” boundary, the line between controls should be broken either side of the boundary. Sufficient crossing points should be provided such that there is an option on all likely route choices and no competitor will gain an advantage by not using a crossing point.
Personally I think it's always clearer to have the information on the map, and I have to confess that I'd be sympathetic to anyone who gets disqualified for not having read (or remembered) something on page 13 of the final details.
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Scott - god
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Scott wrote: I'd be sympathetic to anyone who gets disqualified for not having read (or remembered) something on page 13 of the final details.
Exactly so.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be sympathetic to someone who didn't read the details and then complained when they couldn't get over the high fence. IIRC there's a bl**dy great deer fence in the middle of Torphantrick which you don't want to take on.
I'm sympathetic to the issue that the map would become a mass of purple lines. IOF had the chance to fix this in ISOM2017, but chose not to allow a "forbidden to cross" symbol.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
graeme wrote:On the other hand, I wouldn't be sympathetic to someone who didn't read the details and then complained when they couldn't get over the high fence.
No argument with that. The ISOM definition for a double-tag fence is "normally more than 1.5m high", so in that case there's enough information on the map to tell you that assuming you'll be able to scale it is a high-risk strategy.
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Scott - god
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
On the map there is no symbol for a "mandatory crossing". Crossing points are shown for information / assistance to competitors. They only effectively become "mandatory" from the existence of a purple line on the fence, or whatever, or an adjacent out-of-bounds area - so that they become the only permissible route(s).Freefall wrote:...The rules do not state that purple lines have to be used with mandatory crossings. ...
Officials who don't correctly mark boundaries as out-of-bounds, when they should be, can't complain if they are crossed.
Is it higher than the 15(?)-foot security fence on the first leg of the Pembrey Harvester, when the gate wasn't unlocked?graeme wrote: IIRC there's a bl**dy great deer fence in the middle of Torphantrick which you don't want to take on.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
We will do our best to recover anyone who attempts a crossing
PS Not actual fence - this is for the Scottish 6 Days 2019
PS Not actual fence - this is for the Scottish 6 Days 2019
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Snail wrote:Officials who don't correctly mark boundaries as out-of-bounds, when they should be, can't complain if they are crossed.
This has been discussed so many times and it's almost always agreed that marking them on the map is always best. I don't get why organisers/controllers are so blind to this. Just mark them.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
mharky wrote:Novel way of presenting the relay course distances/climb.
I wonder what the rationale behind changing it was? Relay course lengths have been presented the same way for as long as I can remmeber and nobody that I've seen has ever complained or made a case for changing it.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Note that the relay start blocks have been revised in the 110518 version in line with Competition Rule D section 5.4.
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Freefall - addict
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
Snail wrote:Is it higher than the 15(?)-foot security fence on the first leg of the Pembrey Harvester, when the gate wasn't unlocked?graeme wrote: IIRC there's a bl**dy great deer fence in the middle of Torphantrick which you don't want to take on.
[sometime in the 80s when we could get over things like that]
I think not, but at least they have provided a crossing point alternative...
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
andy wrote:... I wonder what the rationale behind changing it was? ...
I am not bothered by either presentation - division by 3 is not that difficult!
Possible advantages of this year's approach are:
- in theory it is accurate, for both length and climb, so gives slightly more information than ranges quoted under the old method. (Although it is perhaps slightly suspicious that each aggregate length and climb neatly divides by 3!)
- for a team, if leg 1 and 2 remember the length/climb of their gaffle they know the accurate data for leg 3
- ditto for the commentary team, if they collect or are provided with the leg 1 & 2 data after they finish, either for everyone or for selected teams
- it avoids the planner having to check, and perhaps count climb, for every variation on every course, to avoid someone whinging if their gaffle is slightly outside the quoted ranges .
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
1) No, once you divide by three and +/- 5%, you still end up with a range.
2) Yes, but it's not relevant, see point 3)
3) Yes, but gaffel length is not equal to gaffel running time. I've done plenty of commentary, what is needed is a map with all the gaffels printed, and a breakdown of what each teams' gaffels are.
4) No, you only need to count the climb for each gaffel section, then work out the most and least climb possible. All the other combinations fall in between. And, you can add climb length into each control-to-control leg on planning software, and it will do this for you anyway. Has anyone ever made a serious complaint about their gaffel being outwith the stated limits?
If you can't see why this is a bad, you're part of the problem.
2) Yes, but it's not relevant, see point 3)
3) Yes, but gaffel length is not equal to gaffel running time. I've done plenty of commentary, what is needed is a map with all the gaffels printed, and a breakdown of what each teams' gaffels are.
4) No, you only need to count the climb for each gaffel section, then work out the most and least climb possible. All the other combinations fall in between. And, you can add climb length into each control-to-control leg on planning software, and it will do this for you anyway. Has anyone ever made a serious complaint about their gaffel being outwith the stated limits?
If you can't see why this is a bad, you're part of the problem.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
It may be of interest to Mharky that for today's EOC Relays the table shows a winning time of 100 minutes for Men and Women and overall climb of 300 and 220m. There is no breakdown of Leg 1, 2 and 3 runners. How is this so different from publishing a total distance? In fact most "Relay" races outside orienteering publish as "relay marathons" or "relay ultramarathons" etc. but don't major on the shorter lengths covered by runners.
The second point to make is that the majority of people (orienteers or not) following an orienteering relay don't really understand (or care) much about the breakdown of gaffles and how they might affect the outcome.
The second point to make is that the majority of people (orienteers or not) following an orienteering relay don't really understand (or care) much about the breakdown of gaffles and how they might affect the outcome.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
andy wrote:Snail wrote:Officials who don't correctly mark boundaries as out-of-bounds, when they should be, can't complain if they are crossed.
This has been discussed so many times and it's almost always agreed that marking them on the map is always best. I don't get why organisers/controllers are so blind to this. Just mark them.
Agreed. Have to admit I wouldn't have seen the info in the final details if it hadn't been pointed out on here - slightly worried about the number of people who simply wont bother reading it. However it may be so obvious on the map/planning that its not an issue.
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Re: British Orienteering Championships website
mharky wrote:If you can't see why this is a bad, you're part of the problem.
Has it ever occurred to you that you might be part of your own problem
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