GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Athletes are categorically not funding or subsidising staff in anyway whatsoever.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
mharky wrote:Athletes are categorically not funding or subsidising staff in anyway whatsoever.
Thanks Mark. So what's the £1200 being spent on other than JWOC? Pre-camp?
Extra training sessions?
I think Grace Molloy is going to EYOC AND JWOC - that's £1850 in personal contributions even before adding on a summer training tour, membership fees for GB squad and mileage to achieve selection (Scotland to Warwickshire, Lakes & SE England).
I wonder what the Irish team's personal contribution is.....
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
I have nothing to do with any of the finance, so can't answer that question.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
mharky wrote:I have nothing to do with any of the finance, so can't answer that question.
Well, I hope you have plenty to do with the technical side. They'll be in good hands then.
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
SeanC wrote:Lots of clubs have sizeable reserves, I could see a system where clubs sponsor an athlete working.
What I think might work would be elites seeking sponsorship offering to come and do a masterclass session for a club (a bit like Thierry did with MAROC). I suspect clubs like ours who don't have any GB senior elites would be happy to give a donation in return for that.
Tess did one a few years back for us (for free) while up here doing some school visits. It was marvellous.
Those of us interested enough to follow Nopesport might be familiar with our top athletes, but I suspect a large proportion of orienteering members don't have the faintest idea who they are.
- Sunlit Forres
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
By staff being "paid", do you mean that they are being paid a stipend or their expenses are being covered?
Many TMs have to pay their own way (at least for WTOC and WSOC, although accreditation fees have usually been paid), do you think it fair that coaches/TMs accompanying juniors to JWOC are having to take annual leave from work to accompany them and then also have to pay all their own flights and accomodation?
If they aren't expected to pay their expenses and BO won't then maybe they are being subsidised by the competitors. Of course the competitors are already paying hefty fees themselves although some might be able to beg to their club or region for help - but in my opinion they shouldn't have to beg, if they are selected then they could be offered some token amount.
[I can comment on this from both sides having paid my own way as a non-competing TM once (WSOC), being a competing TM three times (JWSOC, ETOC, WTOC) and been managed 9 times (7x WTOC, 2x ETOC) by self-funded (or significantly self-funded) TMs]
Many TMs have to pay their own way (at least for WTOC and WSOC, although accreditation fees have usually been paid), do you think it fair that coaches/TMs accompanying juniors to JWOC are having to take annual leave from work to accompany them and then also have to pay all their own flights and accomodation?
If they aren't expected to pay their expenses and BO won't then maybe they are being subsidised by the competitors. Of course the competitors are already paying hefty fees themselves although some might be able to beg to their club or region for help - but in my opinion they shouldn't have to beg, if they are selected then they could be offered some token amount.
[I can comment on this from both sides having paid my own way as a non-competing TM once (WSOC), being a competing TM three times (JWSOC, ETOC, WTOC) and been managed 9 times (7x WTOC, 2x ETOC) by self-funded (or significantly self-funded) TMs]
JK
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Lard wrote:mharky wrote:Athletes are categorically not funding or subsidising staff in anyway whatsoever.
Thanks Mark. So what's the £1200 being spent on other than JWOC? Pre-camp?
Extra training sessions? I think Grace Molloy is going to EYOC AND JWOC - that's £1850 in personal contributions even before adding on a summer training tour, membership fees for GB squad and mileage to achieve selection (Scotland to Warwickshire, Lakes & SE England).
We've been here before (see discussion on last year's JWOC costs). Firstly, please ensure that you have the full facts before firing off on Nopesport and feel free to email me about any of this - as I've stated before I'm always happy to chat things through with anyone who wants to understand more about the programme and the challenges we're facing.
The cost of JWOC to the athlete is actually £1100, not £1200 and Grace is also paying less than you have quoted. The breakdown per head is as follows:
Flights - £300
Accommodation for 11 nights (inc. dinner and breakfast) - £550
Lunch for 11 days - £60
Minibus hire and fuel - £150
Training maps - £20
Pre-JWOC camp costs - £50
All staffing costs (myself, Mark and Heather as physio) will be covered by the Sport England budget and not passed onto the athletes. As has been stated elsewhere, Finland is not cheap and things are not being helped by the weak pound against the Euro. They're not charging us entry fees, but their accommodation and food is not cheap... some of this is outlined in Bulletin 3. If you still think you can do it for under £800, good luck....
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Strider - light green
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
It might be worth a post trying to estimate figures. If only to explain how short-term and long-term aspects have come about. They are a lot bigger than this particular appeal, and suggest a lot of change of some sort will come one way or another.
I am not close to any of this but have looked at the most recent BOF accounts (to 31/12/16), the Strategic Plan (Dec 2016) and Mike's e-News. Personally I found the strategic plan's points about talent development and international teams more interesting from what wasn't said than what was. Because it doesn't say much beyond saying continue the Orienteering Development Pathway. The subject isn't in either of the SWOT analyses.
On the numbers I think the grant money is aligned with tax years and the accounts are a calendar year so there are no doubt some adaptations needed to get exact figures.
2016 income was £1215K, expenditure £1187. Income is broken into main headings.
Sport Northern Ireland granted £81K in 2016. Sport England £599K. It looks like the Sport Northern Ireland money has reduced to £44K, with performance focus funds having ended 31/3/17. The Sport England money is reducing by £330K, and will reduce by another £66K in 2021.
The continuing Sport England money is £66K for talent (not performance) funding - which is for the next 4 years and then stops, and £202K for retention.
The accounts say Athletes' and Others' Contributions were £65K last year, Membership £53K, Participation Levy £138K, Income from Events £232K.
I am not close to any of this but have looked at the most recent BOF accounts (to 31/12/16), the Strategic Plan (Dec 2016) and Mike's e-News. Personally I found the strategic plan's points about talent development and international teams more interesting from what wasn't said than what was. Because it doesn't say much beyond saying continue the Orienteering Development Pathway. The subject isn't in either of the SWOT analyses.
On the numbers I think the grant money is aligned with tax years and the accounts are a calendar year so there are no doubt some adaptations needed to get exact figures.
2016 income was £1215K, expenditure £1187. Income is broken into main headings.
Sport Northern Ireland granted £81K in 2016. Sport England £599K. It looks like the Sport Northern Ireland money has reduced to £44K, with performance focus funds having ended 31/3/17. The Sport England money is reducing by £330K, and will reduce by another £66K in 2021.
The continuing Sport England money is £66K for talent (not performance) funding - which is for the next 4 years and then stops, and £202K for retention.
The accounts say Athletes' and Others' Contributions were £65K last year, Membership £53K, Participation Levy £138K, Income from Events £232K.
- afterthought
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Strider complains that the JWOC costs are wrong, its only £1100, not £1200. So that's alright then! (Actually the breakdown given totals £1130). The point is that this is a hell of a lot of money to represent your country, especially for a junior. It isn't sustainable for the vast majority once you add in all the other costs of being an elite orienteer.
- RoT
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
There really shouldn't be any need for juniors (or their parents) to cover the costs of JWOC out of their own pockets. Local charities (spend an afternoon in the library with the Directory of Grant Making Trusts), local Rotary or Lions clubs, your town council (lots of them are sitting on small pots of money for grants to local young people), and local small businesses can all be persuaded to part with sponsorship money, if you ask nicely and offer something in exchange: perhaps some publicity in the local paper, or an interesting talk at their next meeting.
This sort of thing is likely to be far easier for juniors than for adults, as there are lots of funds and trust specifically for "young people". And it's more likely to be successful at a local level - individual athletes looking for £200 from each of a few different sources - than any attempt to secure a single national sponsorship deal.
This sort of thing is likely to be far easier for juniors than for adults, as there are lots of funds and trust specifically for "young people". And it's more likely to be successful at a local level - individual athletes looking for £200 from each of a few different sources - than any attempt to secure a single national sponsorship deal.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Scott wrote:This sort of thing is likely to be far easier for juniors than for adults, as there are lots of funds and trust specifically for "young people". And it's more likely to be successful at a local level - individual athletes looking for £200 from each of a few different sources - than any attempt to secure a single national sponsorship deal.
I'm sure you're right Scott. In my club we raised a large amount of money to support nine athletes going to World Schools in Sicily. Great. And we are very appreciative to all the funders. But now the problem..... they are not bottomless pots of money and there is no guarantee that any further money will be forthcoming in the near future. It certainly can't be seen as a long term solution.
- RJ
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Sunlit Forres wrote:What I think might work would be elites seeking sponsorship offering to come and do a masterclass session for a club (a bit like Thierry did with MAROC). I suspect clubs like ours who don't have any GB senior elites would be happy to give a donation in return for that.
Yes, I thought about suggesting something like that when I suggested clubs sponsor athletes. However I don't think we could expect all athletes to be able to personally visit all clubs. There could be ways eg through club newsletters, where a sponsored athlete could help to inspire eg some of the keener juniors.
I wonder if when it comes to it, club committees would say no. I'll raise a poll to see what people think.
- SeanC
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
SeanC wrote:Yes, I thought about suggesting something like that when I suggested clubs sponsor athletes. However I don't think we could expect all athletes to be able to personally visit all clubs. There could be ways eg through club newsletters, where a sponsored athlete could help to inspire eg some of the keener juniors.
Elites can think about what they could offer clubs or associations that would suit their skills and schedule. Not everybody is an engaging speaker or educator (or likes kids...), but there are other things like contributing to a promotional video, test running courses, checking map corrections, appearing at an event, probably more.
- Rosine
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
RoT wrote:Strider complains that the JWOC costs are wrong, its only £1100, not £1200. So that's alright then! (Actually the breakdown given totals £1130). The point is that this is a hell of a lot of money to represent your country, especially for a junior. It isn't sustainable for the vast majority once you add in all the other costs of being an elite orienteer.
No, I'm not 'complaining', just stating that the facts as presented were not right. And I agree, it's a lot of money, but this is the situation we're in as a sport, and why the whole thread was started in the first place.
Scott also makes a valid point about the juniors being able to access other funds of money, aside from 'the bank of mum and dad', and this is often the case with our elites. One athlete will have their entire JWOC paid for by a Sportaid grant and others are tapping into money from their local sports' partnerships. Tier 1 Edinburgh students are also in the favourable position that they have money from Winning Students to support their competition fees. Very few junior athletes will actually end up paying anywhere near the £1100 and that's great, but for the seniors it's a much harder task tapping into such funds.
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Strider - light green
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Strider wrote:but for the seniors it's a much harder task tapping into such funds.
So that brings us back to the point - how is BOF going to support the elite (seniors)? Or is it going to wash its hands and say "you're on your own"?
I would support raising membership fees to provide a serious amount to support teams at WOC, World Cups etc. A sport that considers itself a serious international competitive sport should support a strong international programme. it will need explaining to members why this is necessary but should be done as a mainstream part of British Orienteering.
- Big Jon
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