Scottish Championships 2017
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
Looking at tomorrow's details. "whistles may be carried at your own risk" ? Graeme involvement here. (un-Nopesport type LOL)
- frog
Re: Scottish Championships 2017
andy wrote:Spookster wrote:A pity one of the controls was in the wrong place (#213), which spoilt things a bit.
Was that the boulder on the beach?
Yes. The control was on the knoll in the bare rock, about 60m too far East. The boulder it should have been on was fairly obvious, being so close to the path bend.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
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Spookster - god
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
Results up now, thanks SIMan!
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/do ... s/soc2017/
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/do ... s/soc2017/
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
A better link which includes WinSplits and which will have Routegadget at some point is the SOC event page.
- SIman
- brown
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
I'm wary of coming on here and making criticisms but feel strongly that it's necessary to say something so that everyone can learn from the mistakes at yesterday's race.
#213 was the most glaring error. You can even see the correct boulder on the aerial photo on my Strava trace. It's one of the few rocks still above water at high tide. Those who choose to run along the beach to this control got lucky whilst those attacking from the shore lost time. I'm not convinced using a control site which is in the sea at high tide is a good idea. How did Planner and Controller agree on the placement of this control? It wouldn't be possible to tape the site.
Apart from #213 there were general issues with the mapping of the narrow strip of coastline between Yellowcraigs and Gullane. It just didn't appear to have been surveyed. Certainly not recently. #210 was in woodland but it's shown as rough open on the map. The new golf course just above #210 isn't mapped: fairways should be bright yellow rather than rough open!
Also I'm not sure it's accepted to have a control description of tree, east side, in an area of white forest where individual trees aren't mapped?
I did have a word with the Planner when I finished. He naturally believed that #213 was in the correct place and we had to agree to disagree. I didn't take it any further but would hope that everyone can learn from this experience.
IMHO I don't think the decision to link the Yellowcraigs area was a good one. There was too much dead running to make it viable and the problems introduced regarding the use of controls in the tidal zone should have negated it. At the very least the map needed to be carefully checked to ensure fairness.
#213 was the most glaring error. You can even see the correct boulder on the aerial photo on my Strava trace. It's one of the few rocks still above water at high tide. Those who choose to run along the beach to this control got lucky whilst those attacking from the shore lost time. I'm not convinced using a control site which is in the sea at high tide is a good idea. How did Planner and Controller agree on the placement of this control? It wouldn't be possible to tape the site.
Apart from #213 there were general issues with the mapping of the narrow strip of coastline between Yellowcraigs and Gullane. It just didn't appear to have been surveyed. Certainly not recently. #210 was in woodland but it's shown as rough open on the map. The new golf course just above #210 isn't mapped: fairways should be bright yellow rather than rough open!
Also I'm not sure it's accepted to have a control description of tree, east side, in an area of white forest where individual trees aren't mapped?
I did have a word with the Planner when I finished. He naturally believed that #213 was in the correct place and we had to agree to disagree. I didn't take it any further but would hope that everyone can learn from this experience.
IMHO I don't think the decision to link the Yellowcraigs area was a good one. There was too much dead running to make it viable and the problems introduced regarding the use of controls in the tidal zone should have negated it. At the very least the map needed to be carefully checked to ensure fairness.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
On the positive side, I thought today's relay made best possible use of fairly unpromising area.
Yesterday's Controller apologised to me for the issues identified. I was somewhat surprised to hear that neither he or a reliable assistant had checked #213 on the morning of the race. I can understand that it may well be impossible for the Controller to check everything personally but I'd like to think most Controllers would find themselves someone they could rely on to help out in such circumstances.
Yesterday's Controller apologised to me for the issues identified. I was somewhat surprised to hear that neither he or a reliable assistant had checked #213 on the morning of the race. I can understand that it may well be impossible for the Controller to check everything personally but I'd like to think most Controllers would find themselves someone they could rely on to help out in such circumstances.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
Homer wrote:IMHO I don't think the decision to link the Yellowcraigs area was a good one. There was too much dead running to make it viable and the problems introduced regarding the use of controls in the tidal zone should have negated it. At the very least the map needed to be carefully checked to ensure fairness.
The map was a brand new one professionally made from a LiDaR base.
Since I lost the race with a big self-inflicted error in that section , I'm not in a position to criticize "dead running". The decision to link in Yellowcraigs came when ESOC were denied the right to run over large areas of the dunes very late in the planning process by the council (see event details). You might make a case that a better 9km course could have been planned just using Gullane, but I don't think you can make that case for M21E.
I'll write more about this on AP.
On the positive side, I thought today's relay made best possible use of fairly unpromising area.
Thanks
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
Does Lidar make much of a difference if the area is more or less flat [*]? [**]
Thanks to everybody involved for a fine weekend. Special thanks to Siman for upgrading my relay time by more than 12 hours (really, I didn't take that long to find the first control).
[*] apart from that sadistic run up the hill at the end
[**] Actually, I think you refered to the other map which wasn't flat. Maybe I'm tired...
Thanks to everybody involved for a fine weekend. Special thanks to Siman for upgrading my relay time by more than 12 hours (really, I didn't take that long to find the first control).
[*] apart from that sadistic run up the hill at the end
[**] Actually, I think you refered to the other map which wasn't flat. Maybe I'm tired...
- Rosine
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
I thought lidar was primarily just used for contours?
Whoever mapped the area at the end of the dead running between the two areas had clearly not bothered going to that bit. The contours looked ok though.
Whoever mapped the area at the end of the dead running between the two areas had clearly not bothered going to that bit. The contours looked ok though.
- housewife
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
I did M50L on Sat. Possibly my first mistake. I actually quite liked the contrast between the two areas, but not sure the huge dead run between and lengthy trip to the start was worth it.
Agree about the control in the wrong place #213. Not entirely sure the actual boulder it should have been on was in the right place on the map anyhow but that's maybe splitting hairs.
The missing trees from the map around the next control #210 didnt make much difference for that one but did affect the run to the next control - I went down to the beach rather than up into the ghost trees which I think was better.
There seems to have been a bit of digging up on gullane - any idea why that has happened?
Overall I thought course 3 was tougher physically than navigationally but enjoyed the experience - mildly hypothermic I reckon when I got back!
Today's relays. In terms of planning I reckon I got caught out twice - once at the start (nice one Graeme) where I went right but should have dinked left to the track, and once (only) at the cartwheels when I took a wrong spoke. I also got caught out more than once by the rhododendrons, which I sometimes found difficult to interpret between thicket and veg screen - it wasnt as clear cut as I expected (in both senses of the phrase
I guess if I'm honest I didnt enjoy the new look Binning wood as much as I'd hoped. It was a bit grotty in places and there was also a ton of gravel along one of the rides in big piles. To be fair it'll probably be lovely in a couple of years!
Agree about the control in the wrong place #213. Not entirely sure the actual boulder it should have been on was in the right place on the map anyhow but that's maybe splitting hairs.
The missing trees from the map around the next control #210 didnt make much difference for that one but did affect the run to the next control - I went down to the beach rather than up into the ghost trees which I think was better.
There seems to have been a bit of digging up on gullane - any idea why that has happened?
Overall I thought course 3 was tougher physically than navigationally but enjoyed the experience - mildly hypothermic I reckon when I got back!
Today's relays. In terms of planning I reckon I got caught out twice - once at the start (nice one Graeme) where I went right but should have dinked left to the track, and once (only) at the cartwheels when I took a wrong spoke. I also got caught out more than once by the rhododendrons, which I sometimes found difficult to interpret between thicket and veg screen - it wasnt as clear cut as I expected (in both senses of the phrase
I guess if I'm honest I didnt enjoy the new look Binning wood as much as I'd hoped. It was a bit grotty in places and there was also a ton of gravel along one of the rides in big piles. To be fair it'll probably be lovely in a couple of years!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
Provisional results for the relays are now on the SOA results pages
Routegadget and other versions of the results will follow.
Routegadget and other versions of the results will follow.
- SIman
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
routegadget for the individual now up. Relays to follow
http://www.soa.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/
http://www.soa.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
andypat wrote:There seems to have been a bit of digging up on gullane - any idea why that has happened?
SNH contracted the removal of Buckthorn that was there previously. Although it had been forewarned it still gave Mike (the Planner) a bit of a shock when he came across the (apparently) devastated landscape earlier this year!
At the time I wondered what the purpose of its removal was. Apparently it’s 'a non native invasive species' and 'removal makes it more interesting from an ecological point of view'. That said, I found this on the interweb:
Coastal systems are inherently unstable, for as soon as they are consolidated by the sand-retaining grasses these species suffer a decline in vigour and the dunes become liable to blow-outs and other forms of erosion. This raises a management problem for coastal conservation of whether or not to encourage the spread of woody species across dune systems (e.g. sea buckthorn Hippophae rhamnoides; Fig. 7.46). It was specifically on this point that his Scottish Majesty King James VI (King James I of England) forbade 'for hereafter' in 1695 the removal from dunes of 'brent, broom, or juniper', all woody species (Gimingham, 1964).
I wonder when the buckthorn got there!
Finally the other thing you might not have known about Gullane....
Don't worry I'm sure it was in the risk assessment...
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baronmax - off string
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Re: Scottish Championships 2017
baronmax wrote:andypat wrote:There seems to have been a bit of digging up on gullane - any idea why that has happened?
The buckthorn would have eaten up the whole area very quickly - like at the Gullane end.
Took this in the Winter when out on the bike (if you saw big tyre marks on the paths on Sat, that was probably me).
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5220982
The first Gullane/Archerfield event had a problem getting from the woods (now golf courses) out onto the dunes and a path had to be cut through the buckthorn. Then there was a lot of the area dug up for a pipeline.
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Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
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ryeland of doom - blue
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