We had a very anomolous situation at a recent event with the timing software.
Steve Smirthwaite punched the finish before a fellow competitor asked him if he had been to a particular control. On looking at the map he realised that he had not so he immediately went back to that control, punched it and reran the rest of the course.
I believe that once you have punched the finish you are not allowed back into the competition area so he the system should have disqualfied him.
However the software identified that he had indeed punched all the controls in the correct order and therefore passed him as correct. But much worse it took the first time that he punched the finish as his finish time and therefore he received a spuriously quick time which he had not done under any circumstances.
Steve was inclined to suggest they added a sensible finish leg time to that of his last control, but when he realised that he was not allowed to go back in the terrain after punching the finish he disqualified himself.
It seems that with this software all you need to do to get a fast time is to visit the finish early on your course and then continue onwards correctly to the end.
This is absurd and it seems that it is worth checking whatever software you use to see if this bug could have this effect.
Major glitch with timing software
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
This rule was amended a few years back to closing the course down at the download rather than at the finish: -
9.16 A competitor has completed their course after downloading or if pin punches are used, on submission of their “control card”. Competitors are not permitted to return to their course after completion.
Competitors must not re-enter the competition area after their race unless the Organiser permits them to do so.
Autodownload, as far as I am aware, takes the later finish when a previous control is punched subsequent to the first finish.
9.16 A competitor has completed their course after downloading or if pin punches are used, on submission of their “control card”. Competitors are not permitted to return to their course after completion.
Competitors must not re-enter the competition area after their race unless the Organiser permits them to do so.
Autodownload, as far as I am aware, takes the later finish when a previous control is punched subsequent to the first finish.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
So when I downloaded at the JK 2 or 3 years ago and was told I had missed one it was correct that I was not allowed to go back even though i had time to do so rerun the rest of the course and still win. ![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
pete_Bog wrote "Autodownload, as far as I am aware, takes the later finish when a previous control is punched subsequent to the first finish."
That is naturally what we assume. Are you sure? The software used at this event (I can find out what it was but don't know at present,) did not.
That is naturally what we assume. Are you sure? The software used at this event (I can find out what it was but don't know at present,) did not.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
The software will take what's written on the e-card. For most (all?) SI cards I was under the impression that a dib at the finish will overwrite all previous visits to the finish.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
EddieH wrote:I can find out what it was but don't know at present
OE2010 Eddie. You telling me you managed to escape being put on registration or download all these years?
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
EddieH wrote:So when I downloaded at the JK 2 or 3 years ago and was told I had missed one it was correct that I was not allowed to go back even though i had time to do so rerun the rest of the course and still win.
That was correct, old rules = "finish means finish", newer rules = "download means finish" (kind of). Either way, once you have downloaded there is no going back.
Not sure on what OE does but Autodownload takes the later finish time.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Most (if not all) SI Cards have a "register" (or slot) designated for the finish (and one for the start, and, in the newer ones, a register for the clear and check times). On the basis of the information supplied the person appears not to have punched at the finish on the second visit and thus the original "finish time" was not overwritten by the actual, later, finish time.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
MIE wrote:Most (if not all) SI Cards have a "register" (or slot) designated for the finish (and one for the start, and, in the newer ones, a register for the clear and check times). On the basis of the information supplied the person appears not to have punched at the finish on the second visit and thus the original "finish time" was not overwritten by the actual, later, finish time.
Either way, it's a bug: to complete the course, the finish punch should be checked to be later than that of the final control (just as the other control punches would be checked to determine that they're in order). So if they did, indeed, not punch the finish on the second attempt the result ought, I guess, to be either DNF (based on all the control punches) or missed controls (based on the earlier finish punch).
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Pete_Bog wrote:Not sure on what OE does but Autodownload takes the later finish time.
Yes I know someone - lets call him Al to protect his anonymity - who punched the finish at the Strathaven Urban race a few years back and then started gabbing to a fellow finisher for a few minutes. He then had a sudden panic that he'd forgotten to punch the finish so punched it again. Well it turned out he had punched it already but his time was taken by autodownload as the later punch giving him a run in time some minutes slower than anyone else! Fortunately a quick interrogation of the finish unit by SIman after the event ensured Al's day wasnt totally ruined and his earlier finish punch was proven and reinstated!
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Pete_Bog wrote:EddieH wrote:So when I downloaded at the JK 2 or 3 years ago and was told I had missed one it was correct that I was not allowed to go back even though i had time to do so rerun the rest of the course and still win.
That was correct, old rules = "finish means finish", newer rules = "download means finish" (kind of). Either way, once you have downloaded there is no going back.
Those are the BO Rules.
Whereas the IOF Rules haven't changed. They still say "finish line/punch means finished". Which makes it more interesting when you're organising an event (like a WRE) run under both sets of rules.
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Spookster wrote:Which makes it more interesting when you're organising an event (like a WRE) run under both sets of rules.
No it doesn't.... unless it's changed the IOF rules rule.... for the WRE part i.e. M/W21E... BOF rules rule for other classes
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Gross wrote:Spookster wrote:Which makes it more interesting when you're organising an event (like a WRE) run under both sets of rules.
No it doesn't.... unless it's changed the IOF rules rule.... for the WRE part i.e. M/W21E... BOF rules rule for other classes
Exactly. Which means you need your results software to disqualify WRE runners who have a finish punch before they've got all the other controls, but not to disqualify non-WRE runners who have a finish punch before the other controls. Tricky.
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Spookster wrote:Tricky.
Not really.... just put in the event info that because of the WRE status the event is operating under IOF timing rules regarding the finish control.
Most folk would understand that the competitive run is over once you reach the finish & not some random time later in the day....
How on earth can orienteering expect to be taken seriously if we say.... oh, that's the finish... but you can go out again as long as you haven't been to download however far away and still remain competitive.
About as daft as BA announcing on the EDI to LGW flight last night that we had to clear immigration
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Re: Major glitch with timing software
Gross wrote:About as daft as BA announcing on the EDI to LGW flight last night that we had to clear immigration
Really?
We had to clear immigration for an LGW - EDI flight after the spriddle last year. Once they had us in the secure section we got held for two hours until the next flight was safely airbourne, then they cancelled our flight.
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