Interesting how people are focusing on speed of punching/not punching with Si air, i can see that with sprint events it would make a difference. however as i don't do many of those i thought Si air a needless extravagance. In forest o, i'm not that close to the leaders that a few seconds saved would make a huge impact. However at Shining Cliff last week i noted that one or two controls were hard to access, one behind a fallen tree which i had to go around the other in a muddy notch between boulders that was awkward to access. I was thinking this is where it could make a big time difference, awkward to access controls. Unless planners now will have to consider this when deciding on control placement . How far off do they register anyway , if a control is in a pit would you need to jump into it to insert SI Card or just do a mystical pass overhead??
Might have to reconsider.
SIAC touch free
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: SIAC touch free
johnrobinson wrote:How far off do they register anyway , if a control is in a pit would you need to jump into it to insert SI Card or just do a mystical pass overhead??
They only register within 0.5m (or perhaps 1m, if the batteries are good), so yes, you still have to be in the pit. The difference is that you can run through the pit without stopping, saving a second or two compared to having to stop in the pit and get the SI Card into the SI unit.
The other difference is that you can punch controls without meaning to. At Strines I looked at a control that I thought might have been mine. It wasn't, but while I was checking my map my SIAC starting flashing and beeping, as I'd punched it anyway.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
-
Spookster - god
- Posts: 2267
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:49 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: SIAC touch free
They only register within 0.5m (or perhaps 1m, if the batteries are good), so yes, you still have to be in the pit.
Not necessarily so. There are occasions when you would have to get in the pit to be able to insert the SI card into the box but not just to get the card within 0.5m of it.
The fallen tree example is another case where the time saving is significantly more than the 1 or 2 seconds people keep quoting.
A competition with mixed SIAC and standard punching is fundamentally unfair and this should be accepted. Just hand all your money over to SI and blame BOF for allowing them to line their pockets (and to continue to wonder why competitor numbers are dropping).
- SJC
- diehard
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:45 am
Re: SIAC touch free
When I test punched at sampel controls befor one event, I found the horizontal range seemed to be somewhat greater than the vertical.
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1453
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: SIAC touch free
JK website wrote:
Please note that only one SI card number may be used per individual entry (i.e. if choosing to hire, then it must be for all the days entered).
Okay we got this wrong as we didn't anticipate people mixing SI cards across the Days; but definitely cockup not conspiracy.
We have had some requests to Enquiries about how to hire for just one of the days and we have responded with a workaround. Some other people didn't ask but just entered as normal and posted a cheque for one day's hire (usually the Sprint race) - and we will handle that.
If anyone else wants to hire a SIAC card just for one day out of the weekend then they should enter with their usual SI card and then hire a SIAC card from Enquiries on the day - we will have enough spares.
The moral is; at any event if you have a problem with the entry system ask the organisers about it - they will usually do their best to sort it out.
- Slowtochide
- orange
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:47 pm
Re: SIAC touch free
Spookster wrote:The other difference is that you can punch controls without meaning to. At Strines I looked at a control that I thought might have been mine. It wasn't, but while I was checking my map my SIAC starting flashing and beeping, as I'd punched it anyway.
Wasn't the last event at Strines back in the 90s? Does that mean SIAC is so fast it creates a distortion in space-time allowing you to either punch near the control or on the same day as the event but not both?
King Penguin wrote:When I test punched at sampel controls befor one event, I found the horizontal range seemed to be somewhat greater than the vertical.
QED
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1198
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: SIAC touch free
buzz wrote:Wasn't the last event at Strines back in the 90s? Does that mean SIAC is so fast it creates a distortion in space-time allowing you to either punch near the control or on the same day as the event but not both?
Strines, Shining Cliff, what's the difference?! Both steep, rough, and too full of bramble hiding the moss covered boulders.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
-
Spookster - god
- Posts: 2267
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:49 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: SIAC touch free
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but touch free punching at The British sprints at Aldershot was a disaster. and I cannot see how the JK sprint will not be the same.
The reason is that these events naturally have a high density of controls.
You identify that you have recorded your control by looking to see if it is flashing. However people passed other controls that were not theirs within the flashing time, ran past their own, noted it was flashing and carried on only to be disqualified for a wrong control. I don't remember how many - quite a few I know Graeme A was one.
Can the planners absolutely guarantee that this will not happen? Similarly can they guarantee that people will not be able to record controls from the wrong side of an uncrossable boundary?
Incidentally I remember at the Kingussie event mentioned above that download was ver slow so there was a very long queue. At the end someone collected the finish control and walked into the download building. Everyone in the queue logged a new finish time replacing their real one - about 20 minutes in my case.
The reason is that these events naturally have a high density of controls.
You identify that you have recorded your control by looking to see if it is flashing. However people passed other controls that were not theirs within the flashing time, ran past their own, noted it was flashing and carried on only to be disqualified for a wrong control. I don't remember how many - quite a few I know Graeme A was one.
Can the planners absolutely guarantee that this will not happen? Similarly can they guarantee that people will not be able to record controls from the wrong side of an uncrossable boundary?
Incidentally I remember at the Kingussie event mentioned above that download was ver slow so there was a very long queue. At the end someone collected the finish control and walked into the download building. Everyone in the queue logged a new finish time replacing their real one - about 20 minutes in my case.
- EddieH
- god
- Posts: 2513
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:04 pm
Re: SIAC touch free
Me too , which meant I was last! My whole aim had not to be last and on my actual time I wasn't
- Tatty
- guru
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:21 pm
Re: SIAC touch free
So we have a number of predictions for the JK
1) That there will be punching disasters due to control proximity
But perhaps that won't matter too much because:
2) The juries will void all competitions because they are clearly and fundamentally unfair
3) The SportIdent team will not turn up because they have retired to the Pacific island they have bought on the profits from selling SIACs
Perhaps because all the planning and organising teams have been talking to each other (and SI), doing tests and writing good practice guidelines based on an increasingly large knowledge base on the use of SIAir in MBTO and Foot-O. P.S. you can't double-punch the finish contactlessly - the first punch turns the SIAC off.
Just perhaps, in the era of Brexit and Trump, the JK will run perfectly well with SIAir and mixed punching.
1) That there will be punching disasters due to control proximity
But perhaps that won't matter too much because:
2) The juries will void all competitions because they are clearly and fundamentally unfair
3) The SportIdent team will not turn up because they have retired to the Pacific island they have bought on the profits from selling SIACs
EddieH wrote: and I cannot see how the JK sprint will not be the same.
Perhaps because all the planning and organising teams have been talking to each other (and SI), doing tests and writing good practice guidelines based on an increasingly large knowledge base on the use of SIAir in MBTO and Foot-O. P.S. you can't double-punch the finish contactlessly - the first punch turns the SIAC off.
Just perhaps, in the era of Brexit and Trump, the JK will run perfectly well with SIAir and mixed punching.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Re: SIAC touch free
NeilC wrote:Just perhaps, in the era of Brexit and Trump, the JK will run perfectly well with SIAir and mixed punching.
I hope that this information doesn't contain any Trump style "Alternative Facts"
- Paul Frost
- addict
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:25 pm
- Location: Highlands
Coconuts
NeilC wrote:So we have a number of predictions for the JK
and I predict that it will be fine.
You read it here first
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4727
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: SIAC touch free
Jk website still says:
"Please note that only one SI card number may be used per individual entry (i.e. if choosing to hire, then it must be for all the days entered)."
So slowtochide :
"If anyone else wants to hire a SIAC card just for one day out of the weekend then they should enter with their usual SI card and then hire a SIAC card from Enquiries on the day - we will have enough spares."
Maybe you need to get someone to update the jk website if that is the new official line, posting on nope means very little to the vast majority of UK and overseas entrants who have not waded thru 13 pages of a non jk topic.....
"Please note that only one SI card number may be used per individual entry (i.e. if choosing to hire, then it must be for all the days entered)."
So slowtochide :
"If anyone else wants to hire a SIAC card just for one day out of the weekend then they should enter with their usual SI card and then hire a SIAC card from Enquiries on the day - we will have enough spares."
Maybe you need to get someone to update the jk website if that is the new official line, posting on nope means very little to the vast majority of UK and overseas entrants who have not waded thru 13 pages of a non jk topic.....
- PhilJ
- green
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 am
Re: SIAC touch free
EddieH wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned, but touch free punching at The British sprints at Aldershot was a disaster. and I cannot see how the JK sprint will not be the same.
I don't believe that was SIAC, though - I felt sure the first time I used SIAC was at the Kingston Urban event last year.
- roadrunner
- addict
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:30 pm
Re: SIAC touch free
roadrunner wrote:EddieH wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned, but touch free punching at The British sprints at Aldershot was a disaster. and I cannot see how the JK sprint will not be the same.
I don't believe that was SIAC, though - I felt sure the first time I used SIAC was at the Kingston Urban event last year.
Correct. British Sprints at Aldershot in 2015 used Emit touch free, so hard to blame SIAC! It looks like about 10% of runners go DSQ'd, so perhaps more than a normal proportion in Sprint, but somewhat short of a "disaster".
There's no doubt that Sprint planning with touch free punching has some extra considerations/constraints.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
-
Spookster - god
- Posts: 2267
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:49 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests