SIAC touch free
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: SIAC touch free
Hmm, who makes these decisions - event organisers or someone in British Orienteering? I think it is probably the latter. Event organisers are generally speaking volunteer members of the orienteering community, regular orienteers who fully understand the punching methods and advantages and disadvantages of both, and I trust would act in the best interests of the competitors and the event as a whole. So it doesn't look like they've have much say in the decision.
- housewife
- green
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:28 pm
- Location: probably at work
Re: SIAC touch free
Was the decision made by the Events and Competitions Committee? Who are all volunteers (bar two)
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... 016_v2.pdf
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... 016_v2.pdf
nope it i still have the coolest hat in school
-
eddie - [nope] cartel
- Posts: 2260
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:54 pm
- Location: back at the begining
Re: SIAC touch free
That's disappointing. It doesn't seem that the discussion even touched on what (if any!)advantage SI Air brings, compared to the considerable cost its introduction foists on members.
- housewife
- green
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:28 pm
- Location: probably at work
Re: SIAC touch free
The decision to use SIAir and have mixed punching was a decision made solely by the organisers.
I do not know who made the decision to only allow one e-card for the whole weekend. SJC et al have their conspiracy theories about fat cats and back-handers but it may equally be because the entries system couldn't cope with multiple e-cards, ie there is only one field for e-card per BOF number.
I do not know who made the decision to only allow one e-card for the whole weekend. SJC et al have their conspiracy theories about fat cats and back-handers but it may equally be because the entries system couldn't cope with multiple e-cards, ie there is only one field for e-card per BOF number.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Re: SIAC touch free
But why would you want to? Its just such a bizzare decision to make?
- housewife
- green
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:28 pm
- Location: probably at work
Re: SIAC touch free
but it may equally be because the entries system couldn't cope with multiple e-cards
and who is running the entry system ?
Si Entries of course !
- SJC
- diehard
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:45 am
Re: SIAC touch free
NeilC wrote:SJC et al have their conspiracy theories about fat cats and back-handers but it may equally be because the entries system couldn't cope with multiple e-cards, ie there is only one field for e-card per BOF number.
I strongly suspect you're right, that the software was designed with the assumption that one entrant would have one e-card.
Sure, it could have been designed to cope with multiple e-cards, but my guess is that the requirement wasn't foreseen. It's not unusual for a requirement to be unforeseen: just think back to all the software that was designed 20+ years ago with the assumption that the year "99" would always be later than the year "00", and had to be modified when it became apparent that (within the lifetime of the software), that wouldn't be the case. (Guilty as charged, m'lud: I myself built just such a system in 1990, never expecting that it would last 10 years. And no, the person who specified it didn't anticipate it either).
Given a choice between conspiracy and c***-up, in the absence of actual evidence, c***-up is generally more likely...
- ricardito
Re: SIAC touch free
SJC wrote:and who is running the entry system ?
Si Entries of course !
Ah, that must be why we're not using EMIT
-
Homer - diehard
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Springfield
Re: SIAC touch free
nooomember wrote:wrote:
Is this just a money making scam?
Yes, of course it is... By both the SI masters, who are a business after all whose interest it is in continuously upgrading the system and making them with limited battery life,
Plus British Orienteering overcharging for SI hire.
Henry Ford designed and built a car, continuously upgraded since then. Would you have us all driving around in Model T's? There's nothing wrong with progress and developing new things, Windows, OCAD and all sots of other bits of software spring to mind. It does appear to some as a scam because the timing is hot on the heels of other developments, too hot on the heels for some.
As has been pointed out for JK BOF have nothing to do with setting the hire rate. Same applies to BOC 2017.
However, what if I did hire one and lost it after the sprint day? Surely I could use my old one on days 2,3 and the relay? It would be simply a case of changing the SI number in the system. The entry system may not be able to handle it but the results system should be able to.
- DM
- brown
- Posts: 577
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:47 pm
Re: SIAC touch free
Homer wrote:I had a bit of a reminder of the bad old days this morning at (admittedly) a fell race: control cards and pin punches. I can't remember the last time I fumbled with cold fingers to punch a flimsy piece of tyvek.
Should have done the Cannock Chase Trig Points race (Mercia) - that used SI (thanks WCH)
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1453
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: SIAC touch free
Progress, swooping one electronic punching system for another, for a cool £250k price tag. More like the Emperor's new clothes.DM wrote:Henry Ford designed and built a car, continuously upgraded since then. Would you have us all driving around in Model T's? There's nothing wrong with progress and developing new things, Windows, OCAD and all sots of other bits of software spring to mind. It does appear to some as a scam because the timing is hot on the heels of other developments, too hot on the heels for some.
- maprun
- diehard
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:37 am
Re: SIAC touch free
Posted this back on Dec 30th on the thread, how right I was !
"...So I would argue if you want a chance of getting into the A final at JK sprint you'd better put your hand in your pocket, or slum it with the poor plebs in the B and C finals! I assume there will be lots of evidence post race on who used SIAC and who didn't and their results.
I can see an argument for SIAC at world champs where elites wish to "run through" controls without slowing down but at no other domestic event.
Sportident must be p*ssing themselves laughing at the gullible orienteers who will buy/use the next bit of tat they dish out."
Last sentence says it all
"...So I would argue if you want a chance of getting into the A final at JK sprint you'd better put your hand in your pocket, or slum it with the poor plebs in the B and C finals! I assume there will be lots of evidence post race on who used SIAC and who didn't and their results.
I can see an argument for SIAC at world champs where elites wish to "run through" controls without slowing down but at no other domestic event.
Sportident must be p*ssing themselves laughing at the gullible orienteers who will buy/use the next bit of tat they dish out."
Last sentence says it all
- PhilJ
- green
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 am
Re: SIAC touch free
JK Sprint doesn't have Finals. Just the one race .
However the principle of your point remains. I would be surprised if any class is won by someone not using an SIAC.
However the principle of your point remains. I would be surprised if any class is won by someone not using an SIAC.
-
Homer - diehard
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:10 pm
- Location: Springfield
Re: SIAC touch free
housewife wrote:Hmm, who makes these decisions - event organisers or someone in British Orienteering? I think it is probably the latter.
The BOF ECC minutes looks to be strongly disapproving of mixed punching, recognising it as "fundamentally unfair".
Event organisers are generally speaking volunteer members of the orienteering community, regular orienteers who fully understand the punching methods and advantages and disadvantages of both,
But as committed orienteers are more likely themselves to be among the minority who have bought SIAC cards - thus with a strong personal interest in getting the technology enabled at competitions.
and I trust would act in the best interests of the competitors and the event as a whole. So it doesn't look like they've have much say in the decision.
It looks like for both our most prestigious competitions the organisers have pushed the limit of the both the IoF and BOF policies - keeping to the letter, rather than the spirit of the policies.
- pete.owens
- diehard
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am
Re: SIAC touch free
maprun wrote:swooping one electronic punching system for another, for a cool £250k price tag.
Where did this number come from? Please elaborate.
pete.owens wrote:The BOF ECC minutes looks to be strongly disapproving of mixed punching, recognising it as "fundamentally unfair".
In context, only unfair if competitors are denied a reasonable opportunity to use the technology. Not the case at JK/BOC.
keeping to the letter, rather than the spirit of the policies.
Perhaps if JK/BOC had gone fully SIAir and forced the majority to hire a SIAC there would have been less complaints. I very much doubt it.
PhilJ wrote: I can see an argument for SIAC at world champs where elites wish to "run through" controls without slowing down but at no other domestic event.
Why do so many moan about punching at EMIT controls if us non-elite runners aren't bothered about slowing down to punch? One could argue that in terms of punching ease SIAir/EmiTag is to SI as SI is to (old) EMIT. I would say that the first differential is greater than the second.
- NeilC
- addict
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: SE
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 207 guests