People want a change away from the current emit system because they don't like having to wait in a line of 3 or 4 people to punch, as happened at the JK a few years ago. This may not happen so much on the elite courses, housewife?
I've used emiTag and SIAC, and I like both, but I'm also content with standard SI. But I find standard emit very frustrating to use as a competitor.
SIAC touch free
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Re: SIAC touch free
babs f wrote:OK, describe me as sad but....
The proportion of non-EMIT-club members at Didcot hiring brikkes is 38/96 = 40%.
The proportion of EMIT-club (SCOA + OD) members hiring brikkes is 57/129 = 44%.
The numbers are changing as I type, as the entries are gently increasing.
Nevertheless, I think that my conclusion is that people entering Didcot are keener than your average and have their own EMIT brikkes, even if they are not from a club whose preferred system is EMIT.
Apologies for any errors in the sums.
But you are of course not counting the people not going to your event at all because it's emit...
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ifor - brown
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Re: SIAC touch free
As a frequent user of all the punching systems, my preferences are:
1. Current V3 emit brick (has display and does not have to be fully inserted)
2. SI Air (feedback and proximity)
3. Emit touch free (feedback and proximity)
4. SI v9 (does not need to be fully inserted)
5. Pre V3 emit brick (no feedback)
6. Original SI (seems painfully slow now)
7. Pin punching (still in use!)
8. Ink stamp (last used in 1969)
I have yet to experience the V5 or V6 (which has feedback, but no display) Emit bricks.
Emit touch free is being used at the SARUM event on Jan 1st at Copehill, the army Bavarian training 'village' and surrounding area on Salisbury Plain.
1. Current V3 emit brick (has display and does not have to be fully inserted)
2. SI Air (feedback and proximity)
3. Emit touch free (feedback and proximity)
4. SI v9 (does not need to be fully inserted)
5. Pre V3 emit brick (no feedback)
6. Original SI (seems painfully slow now)
7. Pin punching (still in use!)
8. Ink stamp (last used in 1969)
I have yet to experience the V5 or V6 (which has feedback, but no display) Emit bricks.
Emit touch free is being used at the SARUM event on Jan 1st at Copehill, the army Bavarian training 'village' and surrounding area on Salisbury Plain.
- drobin
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Re: SIAC touch free
I've used emiTag perhaps 3-4 times, with mixed experiences. Sometimes it's worked fine. At others there were technical problems, with units stopping working during the event or giving false or incomplete info at download. (To be fair I think the latter probably arose from using a bunch of tags with low batteries - but this is equally going to become an issue with SIAir at some point).
At each of those events I've seen people "taking advantage": punching from the wrong side of not-to-be-crossed features, not having to drop into / scramble out of steep-sided depressions; not having to climb to the top of a sizeable knoll. These could all have been avoided by using different control placements - but it seems daft to compromise what the planner considered to be the best site (and the controller accepted as such) simply to save a few seconds for a subset of competitors. Mixed punching is going to create many more opportunities for juries to debate whether or not a placement is fair to all.
And what's the incentive for clubs / organisers to adopt? I can't see that contactless in itself is going to attract many newcomers to the sport. Within the sport mixed punching at a specific event may deter as many people as it attracts. And most of all why will clubs want to invest in a stock of (limited battery life) SIAir hire cards, when they already have a bunch of standard SI cards that will continue to work almost indefinitely?
At each of those events I've seen people "taking advantage": punching from the wrong side of not-to-be-crossed features, not having to drop into / scramble out of steep-sided depressions; not having to climb to the top of a sizeable knoll. These could all have been avoided by using different control placements - but it seems daft to compromise what the planner considered to be the best site (and the controller accepted as such) simply to save a few seconds for a subset of competitors. Mixed punching is going to create many more opportunities for juries to debate whether or not a placement is fair to all.
And what's the incentive for clubs / organisers to adopt? I can't see that contactless in itself is going to attract many newcomers to the sport. Within the sport mixed punching at a specific event may deter as many people as it attracts. And most of all why will clubs want to invest in a stock of (limited battery life) SIAir hire cards, when they already have a bunch of standard SI cards that will continue to work almost indefinitely?
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Re: SIAC touch free
ifor wrote: But you are of course not counting the people not going to your event at all because it's emit...
True.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Snail wrote:Mixed punching is going to create many more opportunities for juries to debate whether or not a placement is fair to all.
No, I don't think so. Mixed punching is unlikely to be allowed at events "important enough" to need a jury. And at events that don't need a jury (everything else), mixed punching may or may not be allowed, according to what the organising club decides, and it really won't matter.
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Spookster - god
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Re: SIAC touch free
I find this whole debate quite sad. SI Air and Emit touch-free are both advances in our sport and should be embraced. The people moaning should either buy a new one or stop getting their knickers in a twist over something that they can influence if they splash the cash.
At urban/sprint races using Emit those people who use the system regularly will punch a few seconds faster than the majority of us who only use the system one or twice a year. You can’t buy Emit V3 with the display nowadays so, unlike SI Air, we can’t do anything about this situation.
At urban/sprint races using Emit those people who use the system regularly will punch a few seconds faster than the majority of us who only use the system one or twice a year. You can’t buy Emit V3 with the display nowadays so, unlike SI Air, we can’t do anything about this situation.
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Re: SIAC touch free
lindseyk wrote: You can’t buy Emit V3 with the display nowadays so, unlike SI Air, we can’t do anything about this situation.
Actually you now can:
http://www.emit-uk.com/product/2014/01/ ... -ecard-led
- babs f
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Re: SIAC touch free
babs f wrote:lindseyk wrote: You can’t buy Emit V3 with the display nowadays so, unlike SI Air, we can’t do anything about this situation.
Actually you now can:
http://www.emit-uk.com/product/2014/01/ ... -ecard-led
I think the stock of v3 refurbished ones is very limited but more interestingly I see that there's a v6 with a flashing light for only an extra £7.
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Re: SIAC touch free
I think we need to look at the enhancements to the orienteering experience the new punching gives. When electronic punching was introduced it was revolutionary. It changed the planning of courses, it allowed for splits analysis and freed up loads of volunteers from control card checking. SI AIR seems to eliminate the unfairness of two people arriving at a control at once and both trying to punch. And for that a family of 4 is asked to pay £240.
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Re: SIAC touch free
lindseyk wrote:At urban/sprint races using Emit those people who use the system regularly will punch a few seconds faster than the majority of us who only use the system one or twice a year.
Not so - on wednesday i spent a couple of seconds at each of 47 controls making sure i placed the brikke correctly and that the unit had flashed - not that i needed to bother as my brikke (and several others) failed to record any controls...
AFAICS no-one's arguing against SI Air per se, just that if it's going to be used it needs to be available for hire for all those who want it. Maybe brikke/d*bber owners are in the majority in some areas, particularly where membership has been declining and only the hardcore are left, but at Moravian hire is the norm: only 19 from a membership of 279 (up from 60 members in 2008) own their own brikkes.
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greywolf - addict
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Re: SIAC touch free
At the competitive end of the sport I expect most people will dig deep and buy or hire a SIAC card if they think they'll benefit from it. For the occasional or social orienteers who don't mind where they come on the results (and probably don't read Nopesport) then they won't.
The proportion of JK2017 competitors who chose to use their existing SI card versus hiring will be an interesting stat.
The proportion of JK2017 competitors who chose to use their existing SI card versus hiring will be an interesting stat.
- paul
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Re: SIAC touch free
Mixed punching is unlikely to be allowed at events "important enough" to need a jury.
Like the JK ?
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Re: SIAC touch free
I am still unsure what i will be doing. I like to think that I am competitive. I am certainly keen (50+ races this year). However I have yet to go to an event using SI Air. I won't be splashing out 60 quid for something with a limited battery life until I am sure I'll be getting my money's worth.
I guess I'll end up paying the extra to hire one for the JK but doubt that I will get one for Marge (JROS can have her £6.45). Can someone explain why I will have to pay for SI Air hire for Lisa who will be W20 and still a student whilst other juniors get it for free?
Are any other major events in 2017 using SI Air?
I guess I'll end up paying the extra to hire one for the JK but doubt that I will get one for Marge (JROS can have her £6.45). Can someone explain why I will have to pay for SI Air hire for Lisa who will be W20 and still a student whilst other juniors get it for free?
Are any other major events in 2017 using SI Air?
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Homer - diehard
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Re: SIAC touch free
paul wrote:occasional or social orienteers who don't mind where they come on the results
Quite a few of the large "brikkeless" cohort of Moravian members that Greywolf mentions take part in 20 or more events a year, but rarely travel more than an hour or so to get to an event. They like orienteering (and like to do as well as they can) but don't live their lives by it, which is probably the sort of members any club hoping to expand should expect.
They'd save a fortune by getting their own, but few do. I doubt many would be fazed by hire charges for whatever system happens to be used.
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