SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
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SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
How is this going to work?
Simon Firth - ESOC
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- smf
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
smf wrote:How is this going to work?
SOA website AGM report wrote:The proposals to increase the SOA membership fees and to remove the need of members to be members of the British Orienteering Federation were accepted with large majorities. The latter (a change to byelaws) clears the way for the SOA Board to introduce club and SOA only membership options but a number of practical and operational issues will need to be resolved.
Yes, I imagine they do.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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Spookster - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
Maybe the staff at BOF could work on this & come up with a way forward???
Ohhhh.... maybe not... they'll be busy on SportEngland stuff
Ohhhh.... maybe not... they'll be busy on SportEngland stuff
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Gross - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
smf's grouse is that he has to pay SOA levy for the Scottish NGB and BOF levy for the English NGB, while our friends in England pay only for their own NGB.
It might seem obvious that Scots shouldn't pay for the sportEngland project overheads, but at the moment BOF entangles that with UK functions which the Scots should be paying for.
It would be more sensible to have a single levy covering both NGBs and the UK-wide functions...
It might seem obvious that Scots shouldn't pay for the sportEngland project overheads, but at the moment BOF entangles that with UK functions which the Scots should be paying for.
It would be more sensible to have a single levy covering both NGBs and the UK-wide functions...
WOC2024 Edinburgh
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graeme - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
graeme wrote:smf's grouse is that he has to pay SOA levy for the Scottish NGB and BOF levy for the English NGB, while our friends in England pay only for their own NGB.
Eh? Not true! SOA charge a levy. So do many English regional associations, and those that don't have other means of generating income e.g. capitation.
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
daffdy wrote:graeme wrote:smf's grouse is that he has to pay SOA levy for the Scottish NGB and BOF levy for the English NGB, while our friends in England pay only for their own NGB.
Eh? Not true! SOA charge a levy. So do many English regional associations, and those that don't have other means of generating income e.g. capitation.
Sigh . Do I have to put the link in every time? SOA is the National Governing Body. English regions don't need separate levies to fund the English NGB. The English NGB is paid for by a UK-wide levy. The Scottish NGB is paid for by Scots only.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
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graeme - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
graeme wrote:daffdy wrote:graeme wrote:smf's grouse is that he has to pay SOA levy for the Scottish NGB and BOF levy for the English NGB, while our friends in England pay only for their own NGB.
Eh? Not true! SOA charge a levy. So do many English regional associations, and those that don't have other means of generating income e.g. capitation.
Sigh . Do I have to put the link in every time? SOA is the National Governing Body. English regions don't need separate levies to fund the English NGB. The English NGB is paid for by a UK-wide levy. The Scottish NGB is paid for by Scots only.
Not exactly - that link makes no mention of a National Governing Body. The explanation link actually only uses the term Governing Body, plus 'SGB', which I assume is Scottish Governing Body:
Governing Body
Organisations that govern and administer sports in Scotland. Traditionally we have described SGBs as the guardians and custodians of their sport.
A true NGB would be affiliated to the World Governing Body, would it not, and compete as a Nation in World Championships (not just sub-regional ones).
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
graeme wrote:Sigh . Do I have to put the link in every time? SOA is the National Governing Body.
Putting links in to seek to prove a point is easy, but it doesn't mean you're right! It also doesn't mean you're wrong, because quite clearly SOA is the Governing Body in SportScotland's eyes.
While Scotland is not independent from the UK, and while SOA is not independent of BO, we need to find a sensible way of allocating incomes that works best for all parties.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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Spookster - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
Why are you using that photo Spookster - it's scaring me
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
Spookster wrote:While Scotland is not independent from the UK, and while SOA is not independent of BO, we need to find a sensible way of allocating incomes that works best for all parties.
Exactly. IMO, the same pot of money (BOF levy) should cover the overheads for administrative functions required by SportEngland and SportScotland.
Since SOA organise most of UK's international events (WOC'15 JEC'16...), an equivalent would be to transfer all the levy income and IOF functions to SOA, and let the English office raise their own levy on English members and English events to deal with costs imposed by SportEngland.
OK- thats not going to happen, but it illustrates the current unfairness.
cgb wrote: A true NGB would ...
Cover the admin costs of all its constituent "regions", not just English ones.
Probably this should be in the levy thread.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
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graeme - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
graeme wrote:English regions don't need separate levies to fund the English NGB. The English NGB is paid for by a UK-wide levy. The Scottish NGB is paid for by Scots only.
Sorry Graeme, but this just misleading. The UK-wide levy is essentially funding British, not English, functions. English orienteers fund both regional associations, via a combination of membership fee and levies, and a "national" EOC, which between them carry out broadly the same functions as SOA. The EOC is effectively funded by an England wide membership fee, collected via regional associations. To the extent that government-funded English programmes are administered via the UK national office rather than the EOC, Sport England grants also cover the admin overheads of their funded programmes.
And given that in aggregate there are probably more English members participating in Scottish events than Scottish members at English events, the existence of an SOA event levy probably means that on balance English members are funding SOA rather more than the other way around!
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
Snail wrote: English orienteers fund both regional associations, via a combination of membership fee and levies, and a "national" EOC, which between them carry out broadly the same functions as SOA.
No they don't.
spookster wrote:SportEngland ... expect the NGB to fully fund overheads from their own turnover (i.e. to be fully self-sustaining).
Which is the main cause of the current BOF funding crisis.
SportScotland have a similar expectation of their NGB, which is SOA.
So the SOA is a company limited by guarantee, with an annual turnover in excess of £200,000. That's before you get into club budgets, events, squads, or the complicated arrangements with the six-day company.
It would benefit BOF to look at how SOA do things, particularly using SportScotland money to support profitable activity which in turn produces income to clubs and to SOA.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
To illustrate the issues with the current system turn it on its head. There's no good reason why the SOA should not be the UK national governing body (lets call it UKOF) instead of BOF and BOF become EOF and concentrate on English affairs. If that seems outrageous to suggest, its precisely how plenty Scots feel about the current situation.
I presume the reason that we dont have a UKOF with separate EOF and SOA etc for Wales and NI ( I understand its been suggested before), is that for that to happen certain fat feathery beasts (not capercaillie) would have to vote for Christmas....
I presume the reason that we dont have a UKOF with separate EOF and SOA etc for Wales and NI ( I understand its been suggested before), is that for that to happen certain fat feathery beasts (not capercaillie) would have to vote for Christmas....
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
andypat wrote:To illustrate the issues with the current system turn it on its head. There's no good reason why the SOA should not be the UK national governing body (lets call it UKOF) instead of BOF and BOF become EOF and concentrate on English affairs. If that seems outrageous to suggest, its precisely how plenty Scots feel about the current situation.
That doesn't sound outrageous. But most British NGBs are in England, and some are in Scotland, such as British Curling (that's the only one I could find - Skiing is in London). There's no reason in principle why BOF couldn't be in Scotland and combine its operation with SOA, (in which case there'd need to be an EOA to seek funding from SportEngland) but historically it's always been in Derbyshire (AFAIK).
andypat wrote:I presume the reason that we dont have a UKOF with separate EOF and SOA etc for Wales and NI ( I understand its been suggested before), is that for that to happen certain fat feathery beasts (not capercaillie) would have to vote for Christmas....
We do have a separate WOA and NIOA. NIOA gets money from Sport Northern Ireland, like SOA gets money from Sport Scotland. The complication is that BOF also acts as "EOA", when it comes to bidding for funding from Sport England.
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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Spookster - god
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Re: SOA+Club Only Membership from 2017?
Spookster wrote:he complication is that BOF also acts as "EOA", when it comes to bidding for funding from Sport England.
And under all the proposals will used the background funding from all UK orienteers to finance the function of BOF required to operate SportEngland projects i.e. SE projects will be subsidised by SOA / WOA / NIOA....
Errrrr yes????
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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