I am really concerned about the long term implications this decision has for female athletes. Many girls give up competitive sport when they reach adolescence anyway but surely more will do so if they find themselves competing against people who were born male with male pelvises and muscle build and physiology.
I saw a programme on BBC Scotland about this after Andrew marr this morning and was really concerned when they said the upper limit of testosterone for female athletes was 10.
!0 is a huge level for women. I am a GP and our Fife lab level is below 3 (I think it's about 2 but can't get on the website on my home computer). If you have polycystic ovary syndrome it may go up a bit but I have never seen a woman with a level above 3.5. The lower limit of normal for men though is surprise surprise 10.
Does anyone involved in high level sports medicine understand why the upper limit is so high for women in competitive sport? Surely it just encourages drug taking (and men participating as women). If I had a female patient with a testosterone of 9 she'd be referred to an endocrinologist.
I do worry about this new development and worry soon that no xx women will be winning gold medals.
OK some women can compete with the top men but Angela Mudge is exceptional.
male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympics
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
I read that 10 is six standard deviations away from the norm. There was a case involving Dutee Chand, a decent but not worldbeating Indian sprinter, who reached 10. Chand won her case, and I thought the rule got abolished.
AFAIK, it's worse than you think: the limit used to be 10, now there is no limit. Probably there will be girls with 10+ levels winning gold medals in Rio. The 800m seems to be attracting most attention, not that anyone is seriously threatening Kratochvilova's record
AFAIK, it's worse than you think: the limit used to be 10, now there is no limit. Probably there will be girls with 10+ levels winning gold medals in Rio. The 800m seems to be attracting most attention, not that anyone is seriously threatening Kratochvilova's record
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graeme - god
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
graeme wrote:The 800m seems to be attracting most attention, not that anyone is seriously threatening Kratochvilova's record
Semenya could take that record anytime if she really tried.
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
I've been trying to think of a constructive solution to this and all I can think of at present is to dispense with male and female classifications and introduce "gender divisions" like weight divisions or classifications in the paralympics. I dont know how many levels you would need? If every athlete is tested and assigned a division then cheating wouldn't result in an advantage and the competition would remain fair for all.
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Mrs H - god
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
It's not really a matter of sex,
But more of the muscles you flex.
Worry not about gender,
Become a pretender
And build up your quads, glutes and pecs.
But more of the muscles you flex.
Worry not about gender,
Become a pretender
And build up your quads, glutes and pecs.
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
Mrs H wrote:I've been trying to think of a constructive solution to this and all I can think of at present is to dispense with male and female classifications and introduce "gender divisions" like weight divisions or classifications in the paralympics. I dont know how many levels you would need? If every athlete is tested and assigned a division then cheating wouldn't result in an advantage and the competition would remain fair for all.
To be completely fair, you'd need 1 single division where everyone competes equally (i.e. unless you dispense with gender as a classification it'll never be fair in terms of this argument)
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
That means non drug taking women will never win strength or stamina based olympic events. What are we left with? Tiddly winks isn't yet on the list. Even with stuff like gymnastics I suspect if men and women competed on the same apparatus men would win as they could go bounce higher and tumble faster. I'm sure they could do the pointy toed posing bits if there was a medal in it.
- frog
Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
frog wrote:That means non drug taking women will never win strength or stamina based olympic events. What are we left with? Tiddly winks isn't yet on the list. Even with stuff like gymnastics I suspect if men and women competed on the same apparatus men would win as they could go bounce higher and tumble faster. I'm sure they could do the pointy toed posing bits if there was a medal in it.
3 Day eventing perhaps where it is the horse that does the work?
hop fat boy, hop!
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madmike - guru
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/arti ... d=11821399
Will there be anyone with xx chromosomes in the "women's" weightlifting finals at the olympics in 10+ years? I do feel we're being ousted, not that I'm sure I believe lifting heavy things is a real sport any way, but I do worry in a generation's time it'll be the men's and trans sections.
Will there be anyone with xx chromosomes in the "women's" weightlifting finals at the olympics in 10+ years? I do feel we're being ousted, not that I'm sure I believe lifting heavy things is a real sport any way, but I do worry in a generation's time it'll be the men's and trans sections.
- frog
Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
Would it not make more sense to have women's (XX) and open categories. Trans women could still compete in the open category as a woman.
The alternative would be to have a separate Trans games (cf para) but I'm not sure how big a market there would be for that.
The alternative would be to have a separate Trans games (cf para) but I'm not sure how big a market there would be for that.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
Dig deep into the BO website to find the policy
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... s_v1.4.pdf
Page 72
I'm having to be careful what I say.
As someone now affected by this policy, I am rather ashamed to admit that I am not comfortable with the situation. I hope the competitor in question has fulfilled the criteria, but I am not confident. Of course I am not allowed to know, and I do not wish to cause her distress.
Whether the criteria are set too low seems to be out of our jurisdiction once international policy has been set
I have not changed my user name, people will know who I am.
Please do not jump on me for facing up to the situation I find myself in, and which is something I just have to accept and get accustomed to.
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... s_v1.4.pdf
Page 72
I'm having to be careful what I say.
As someone now affected by this policy, I am rather ashamed to admit that I am not comfortable with the situation. I hope the competitor in question has fulfilled the criteria, but I am not confident. Of course I am not allowed to know, and I do not wish to cause her distress.
Whether the criteria are set too low seems to be out of our jurisdiction once international policy has been set
I have not changed my user name, people will know who I am.
Please do not jump on me for facing up to the situation I find myself in, and which is something I just have to accept and get accustomed to.
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
Karen wrote:Dig deep into the BO website to find the policy
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... s_v1.4.pdf
Page 72
...which appears to predate the Dutee Chand case (despite what the dates may say), and if anything it now applies stricter rules for domestic competition than international.
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Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
Seems simple to me
you compete on the basis of chromosomes, not hormones
you compete on the basis of chromosomes, not hormones
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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Re: male to female trasexuals now able to compete in olympi
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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