EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
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EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
Preliminary details here: http://orienteering.eusu.ed.ac.uk/events/bigweekend
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
4 days to go before entries close, and the course lengths are up now.
http://orienteering.eusu.ed.ac.uk/events/bigweekend
For the first time the Big Weekend visits the multilevel Exchange area of Edinburgh, originally mapped by me and completely redone by rocky.
james has a tricky choice. Now 16 he has to pick between two courses 2.5k Junior or 9.8k Open.
http://orienteering.eusu.ed.ac.uk/events/bigweekend
For the first time the Big Weekend visits the multilevel Exchange area of Edinburgh, originally mapped by me and completely redone by rocky.
james has a tricky choice. Now 16 he has to pick between two courses 2.5k Junior or 9.8k Open.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
Less than two hours until it all kicks off. Looking forward to seeing you all.
- SIman
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
Really enjoyed that today despite my injury and lack of fitness. Probably got caught out more times in one urban race than I was in the whole of last year! Nice planning young Will.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
I could have run MV, but since I'm only one year from the age group boundary I took on a rather epic 9.8km 40 control Open course. Made the map, made loads of mistakes, saw LOTS of our beautiful city, and really enjoyed it.
Some of us old folk don't have the speed you need to run for ikkle 5km courses, so more of the same please!
Some of us old folk don't have the speed you need to run for ikkle 5km courses, so more of the same please!
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
graeme wrote:more of the same please!
Seconded. I would have preferred D to be a little longer, but it was great. Mrs KP on E was almost as long.
Could have saved time with a routechoice which would have taken me off the map, and should have counted alleys more accurately later on.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
Yes enjoyed it! On D, length fine, VERY interesting first section west of Lothian Road. Was found lacking at control 3 102 (133 nearby/over the wall). Braw - must get out more
Good idea with the TdF theme - love silly entertaining games like this although it doesn't motivate me :-/
Good idea with the TdF theme - love silly entertaining games like this although it doesn't motivate me :-/
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
mappingmum wrote:Yes enjoyed it! On D, length fine, VERY interesting first section west of Lothian Road. Was found lacking at control 3 102 (133 nearby/over the wall).
That boundary on the southern edge of the circle looks distinctly crossable on the map.......!
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awk - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
@awk It's the "bridge" symbol, which is rather poorly defined by ISSOM but I've only ever seen used to mean that you can go over or under it, but not jump down. I guess if you did jump down you couldn't be DQed - assuming you completed the rest of the course
I did experiment with a solid black line and dots to show the underneath as an underpass, but it's a total mess The bridge is already twice as wide as in reality to make it legible!
I think in general its best if very complicated bits of map were explained in the prerace details (though here the old map was available).
and yes, I did lose well over a minute on that leg! We live and don't learn.
I did experiment with a solid black line and dots to show the underneath as an underpass, but it's a total mess The bridge is already twice as wide as in reality to make it legible!
I think in general its best if very complicated bits of map were explained in the prerace details (though here the old map was available).
and yes, I did lose well over a minute on that leg! We live and don't learn.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
graeme wrote:@awk It's the "bridge" symbol, which is rather poorly defined by ISSOM but I've only ever seen used to mean that you can go over or under it, but not jump down. I guess if you did jump down you couldn't be DQed - assuming you completed the rest of the course
I see now - thank you! The problem (for me) is that it's the same line width as a crossable boundary. From above and on the map it doesn't look like a bridge either, but going to Google Earth, I can now see that from underneath, it is part of the bridge structure.
I did experiment with a solid black line and dots to show the underneath as an underpass, but it's a total mess The bridge is already twice as wide as in reality to make it legible!
Dfficult one. I totally appreciate the fact that one is working with a mapping spec that is completely inadequate for multi-level orienteering, and understand the difficulties. Definitely a problem with the specs: having the same line width for a bridge and for a crossable barrier is not clever (unless I've misunderstood the specs), and there is, IMO, an urgent need for someway of showing a route over another route using something clearer than the underpass system (colouring?)
I think in general its best if very complicated bits of map were explained in the prerace details (though here the old map was available).
Was it? I must have missed something, but still can't find any reference to it in any of the details. Do agree that this would be best explained. Even better, provide a map extract or direct competitors to an online map (or, as I say, did I miss something?).
Having said that, I'm not sure how much help just a map would have been for me! Having spent half an hour looking at the map, I still can't relate signficant bits to what was going on on the ground. In several instances, I can see what the mapper was trying to do, but I still can't get it to work for navigation. Biggest issues: underpass boundary dots where boundaries don't actually exist (from what I remember and saw at the time), and lack of them where they do (mainly because the line is hidden under something on the level above), routes on the same level being shown in different ways (or on different levels being shown the same way, take your pick!), and uncrossable boundaries that can be crossed underneath with no indication that this can happen. Almost all, if not all, IMO, down to the inadequacies of the mapping spec, which, let's be fair, was never designed to be used on multiple levels, and which specifically states shouldn't be used for the events it is designed for.
Having said all that, I don't want discussing the niceties of difficult mapping (including my own inadequacies at reading it) to get in the way of the fact that this was yet again a great event to be at: it remains one of the highlights of the year for me, at one of the friendliest races on the calendar. Just hope I deal with next year's rather better!!
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awk - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
The problem is that the map is of no use in making route choice decisions on these multi level locations. Unless you have prior/local knowledge of the location you can only plan you route assuming it's on the right level and then when you get there try and work out how to change levels, which isn't always obvious due to the black lines that seem to show no gaps. 3(102) on the D course is a prime example, not helped by the control circle possibly obliterating a gap (or not).
So this adds an element of luck rather than skill, which is fine if everyone is happy with that. I was expecting problems like this and I'm not competitive, so I was happy.
If we want to leave luck out of the equation than we could just avoid having controls and routes in ambiguous places.
The map has been cropped so that you can't see what may have been the best route from 5-6, but without local knowledge I wasn't sure if there was reason I shouldn't go off map for a bit. Plus 6(147) seems to have no access to it, as the building and adjoining wall meet and show no gaps.
I know that urban mapping is hard and tough decisions have to made due to lack of symbol or space to convey what's on the ground. But the planners could avoid some issues by not using the bits that are unclear on the map and making sure that circles are cut and numbers placed so that essential detail isn't hidden (number 16 on D).
But overall I was happy and enjoyed the event and would keep coming back.
So this adds an element of luck rather than skill, which is fine if everyone is happy with that. I was expecting problems like this and I'm not competitive, so I was happy.
If we want to leave luck out of the equation than we could just avoid having controls and routes in ambiguous places.
The map has been cropped so that you can't see what may have been the best route from 5-6, but without local knowledge I wasn't sure if there was reason I shouldn't go off map for a bit. Plus 6(147) seems to have no access to it, as the building and adjoining wall meet and show no gaps.
I know that urban mapping is hard and tough decisions have to made due to lack of symbol or space to convey what's on the ground. But the planners could avoid some issues by not using the bits that are unclear on the map and making sure that circles are cut and numbers placed so that essential detail isn't hidden (number 16 on D).
But overall I was happy and enjoyed the event and would keep coming back.
- Paul Frost
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
I had a lot of trouble working out what was going on at that bridge (starting with me having no idea that it was a bridge, because I was expecting a fence). Having just come from the Sheraton hotel area for controls 16 and 17, where thick black lines and underpass dots were used to differentiate levels and ways under, I was sure the lack of thick black line or underpass dots would mean that I could cross the thin black lines adjacent to 19 on the way to 18. The situation was made worse by the planner's placement of control 19 which obscures a large part of the bridge detail, and the circle actually cuts the thin black line that is part of the bridge.
The bridge at the other end of the houses (to the North East) uses underpass dots to show it is passable underneath. Why would you not do the same with this bridge?
I lost big chunks of time at 18 and 19, as I simply couldn't work it out. Still, others obviously could, and I appreciate there is no right way to map this, so fair enough.
I also lost a big chunk of time getting between 16 and 17, and it took me 30 minutes this morning looking carefully before I suddenly spotted the route I assume others took in order to do it in 40 odd seconds!
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
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Spookster - god
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Re: EUOC's Edinburgh Big Weekend
On the extract above, what was the route into 18?
- mikey
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