JWOC/EYOC selections

[andy]

I still think a lot of people on this thread are looking at JWOC in isolation, and seeing people who they think justify selection, but haven't been despite their being empty places. But for most of them, it isn't as if they are going to be sitting idle in the summer, they are selected for other international competitions.

As far as I can tell there is at least one athlete who averaged under 115% (with a shocker in the middle) who isn't selected for anything else.

Or are people suggesting we should keep going down the list to people who are 15%+ more than the winner, whilst there are still places available? I struggle to see how that is going to result in a positive experience, likely ending up way down the results at JWOC. There are surely other at least as good opportunities to get competition experience, improve technically, make friends etc. than that.

If the winner wasn't so far ahead would the girls in question have been selected? 1st and 2nd were well ahead. If they'd taken 10mins longer does that mean those 3 spots would have been filled? If that's the case then what would have happened if they had stopped at the last control for 8 minutes to have a chat, they'd still have been top two and those spots would have been filled? (ok that's not going to happen, remember this happened at the olympics but when a system supports that behaviour the system is clearly wrong.)

[graeme]

This 10% rule needs to be taken away.

It implies that if Simon Hector were to find a Scottish granny, a bunch of people who were good enough for selection suddenly wouldn't be. Or if Lucy mispunched, a bunch of people who weren't good enough for selection suddenly would be.

I dont know much about selection, but I always thought it a bit silly .

[bendover]

I don't know how many of the selectors have been to JWOC but I would argue that there is no other experience like it as a junior and it is very useful to have run one before your first senior international.

Agree with Jenny. I don't know how much EYOC has changed, but I went to two '6 Nations' races (they were called 6 Nations, but there were more like 11-12 nations there when I competed) and they just didn't compare at all to JWOC.

[PhilJ]

Well said Kris, good luck in the summer and on the weekend in the fetching all white O kit of LOL

[awk]

Or are people suggesting we should keep going down the list to people who are 15%+ more than the winner, whilst there are still places available? I struggle to see how that is going to result in a positive experience, likely ending up way down the results at JWOC. There are surely other at least as good opportunities to get competition experience, improve technically, make friends etc. than that.

You may struggle to see it, but there's a whole string of lowly performances by those who later became senior stars that belie your thesis. A lowly performance can very much be a positive experience if handled properly by the coaching team. Early experience of such as JWOC, enabling a youngster to come back and compete later having learned much, can be extremely valuable, and help provide results that would otherwise be unlikely. Having a taste of the biggest and best can be inspirational, wherever one finishes, and provide a taste of what's really needed.

What happens to the relay team if one of the girls gets injured or ill in Bulgaria? What happens to any chances in developing relay teams if you keep the pool of experience so small?

[Mrs H]

yes as I said earlier the girls' relay team is now a hostage to fortune.

........and of course we wouldn't be having this debate if we had stuck with the old FCC set up. The selectors would have had their choice, the wild cards would have been played and a whole generation of young people would have been inspired to try harder next year and everyone would be happy.

[RS]

Actually, the FCC wasn't that perfect, it was still open to selectors 'preferences' and giving people the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, it showed those who consistently performed well although the youngsters had to be on top form for many races over a few months.
It is a pity it disappeared - I thought it was being resurrected by some Nopers

[distracted]

If other races are going to influence selections, it is blatantly obvious that there are a group of athletes who were going to be in contention for JWOC and WUOC. As this is the case, and some of the reasoning is based on people running other races, was it always on the minds of the selectors that people were only going to be selected for one of the two competitions?

So:
- was this made known to the athletes?
- why were the selections made separately?
- why has WUOC seemingly 'trumped' JWOC in this case?

If a junior was given the choice between JWOC and WUOC, I wonder what they would have chosen?

[Bill]

BOF have still to announce selections for the Junior European Cup (JEC), which are to be based on the same races as JWOC/EYOC. JEC is being staged in Belgium at the beginning of October.

JEC was initially left out of the GB programme and JROS had proposed taking a self-funded team. However, BOF recanted and decided to take a team to JEC. The JROS plan was to give a chance of international competition to some of those missing out on JWOC/EYOC selection. So some hope for those disappointed now (a full team would be 6 each in m18, m20, w18, w20).

[PhilJ]

I admire your optimism Bill but when has BO ever taken a full team to eyoc, jwoc or JEC?

It was only through the action of jros that BO have agreed to consider a team for JEC, it might be interesting to know if any agreement was made between jros and BO of the make up of the team and if jros will be part of the selectors.

We are planning to go to JEC as have friends in Belgium so whomever is selected we shall be shouting for you

[RichT]

Having talked to Sarah and Jackie about JEC and how it fits into the racing year then it is my opinion that BOF will NOT be selecting or sending full teams. The standard at JEC is comparable to JWOC, so if you don't make the JWOC or EYOC selections then don't hold your breath about JEC.

If I could try to chose some examples with care, then I believe Julie Em has been selected for JWOC, and Dane Blomquist for EYOC despite poor results at the JK, as both are carrying injuries but have proved themselves on other occasions. Should one or both fail to recover in time to attend their respective competitions then my perception of how JEC will be used is that it might be offered to these athletes later in the season once they have regained full fitness.

Of course I would not wish to speak on behalf of either Sarah or Jackie, but please don't raise false hopes.

If you haven't managed to be selected for the competition you hoped this year, make sure you go on tour somewhere in the summer and iron out the technical errors that cost you a good race this time.

And keep smiling . . .

[Mrs H]

Is it not a bit dog in a mangerish of BOF to take back control of the JEC team after JROS has shown an interest in it and then not to make full use of it?

[Big Jon]

If a junior was given the choice between JWOC and WUOC, I wonder what they would have chosen?

I think JWOC banquet has disappeared... but the WUOC one certainly hasn't - might have something to do with choice of event if offered both?

[Kitch]

There is no doubt in my mind /experience that JWOC / WOC are significantly different experiences to other international races.
As it was put in a conversation I had on Tuesday evening (not related to this topic)
"People go mental at WOC".
So never mind the contacts, friendships etc. The competitive experience and learning is different. To squander places in a JWOC team does not make sense to me.
I think Duncan has suggested that EYOC and JWOC are rather too close for some people to do both and this being so certain athletes have been given EYOC. In my opinion JWOC would have been the better choice.

[JK]

... I think Duncan has suggested that EYOC and JWOC are rather too close for some people to do both and this being so certain athletes have been given EYOC. In my opinion JWOC would have been the better choice.

For the younger EYOC chaps doing pretty well against their age-peers at EYOC might be a better experience to build on for the future than getting whopped at JWOC. You might be right, but I think there are valid arguments to send the 18s to EYOC instead.

In SkiO then, when the JWSOC is in Europe they often double it up with the EYSOC too (and indeed the Masters and ofter a World Cup race). This means that you still get a fair chunk of the JWSOC experience but get to compete against your peers. The addition of the Masters and Elites make for a larger overall event in terms of spectators too so I think they have this right. I guess there are reasons for not doing this for FootO.

If a junior was given the choice between JWOC and WUOC, I wonder what they would have chosen?

I think JWOC banquet has disappeared... but the WUOC one certainly hasn't - might have something to do with choice of event if offered both?

At EOC/ETOC this year the Banquet was before any of the Finals ... I wonder how many athletes actually attended. Compare that to the epic banquet 2 years ago at EOC in Falun with the, ahem, bonfires + ski-jump hill races ... ah ... OK ... maybe that is why they chose an early Banquet!