Are you looking forward to a Wilf's veggie chilli?

[RJ]

I'm pretty sure a food hygiene certificate is a requirement of selling food anywhere, and not necessarily an integral part of any tendering process.

Do you think that applies to the junior squads who run cake stalls and sell soup etc?

If certification is 'mandatory' then the certificate is supposed to be on display.

No, I think this whole tendering process is probably part of the Risk Assessment for the major events where certain criteria have to be met.

Just like having a fire extinguisher on display in the middle of the Assembly area...... just in case.....

[AndyC]

I'm pretty sure a food hygiene certificate is a requirement of selling food anywhere, and not necessarily an integral part of any tendering process.

Do you think that applies to the junior squads who run cake stalls and sell soup etc?

If certification is 'mandatory' then the certificate is supposed to be on display.

.

There was a whole lot of discussion relating to WI and the like on that subject -and I can't remember the real conclusions - someone will

[roadrunner]

I'm pretty sure a food hygiene certificate is a requirement of selling food anywhere, and not necessarily an integral part of any tendering process.

Do you think that applies to the junior squads who run cake stalls and sell soup etc?

I know that one member of my running club had to get such a certificate so that they could run a cake/sandwich stall at our (and other) events, so I suspect the answer is yes.

What seems strange, though, is that apparently anyone can make the cakes, sandwiches, etc with no certificate at all ....

[tropso]

Relevant info from Food Standards Agency
http://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/guidancenotes/hygguid/charity-community-groups/#.Uwx_EianzJt

[Arnold]

Surprisingly sensible and blather-free advice there.

Basically, as long as you don't do it commercially then you don't need any certificates. Just use basic hygiene rules.

You're even officially allowed to re-use jam jars, wow.

Now whether BOF will allow fundraising cake stalls is another matter. Surely it should be possible though, if you ask nicely?

[awk]

No, I think this whole tendering process is probably part of the Risk Assessment for the major events where certain criteria have to be met.

Having talked to Sally Pygott, and listened to/read comments from others who know a lot more than me, risk assessment never came up - the only topic addressed has been financial.

[andypat]

by RJ » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:17 am

I'm pretty sure a food hygiene certificate is a requirement of selling food anywhere, and not necessarily an integral part of any tendering process.

Do you think that applies to the junior squads who run cake stalls and sell soup etc?

If certification is 'mandatory' then the certificate is supposed to be on display.

No, I think this whole tendering process is probably part of the Risk Assessment for the major events where certain criteria have to be met.

Just like having a fire extinguisher on display in the middle of the Assembly area...... just in case.....

Some one has beat me to it. No its a requirement to get a licesnse to sell food commercially - process differs per nation but essentially the same I think. So no, the tender process is irrelevant to the need for a food hygeine certificate exists whatever the relationship between the vendor and BOF, if the vendor is commercial.

[graeme]

Relevant info from Food Standards Agency
http://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/guidancenotes/hygguid/charity-community-groups/#.Uwx_EianzJt

So its OK to poison people as long as you give their money to charity

Though since the "food hygiene certificate" can be obtained online for £12 without anyone actually looking at your food or your hygiene, I wouldn't get too excited by seeing one on display.

It's a nice indication of how "Health and Safety" rules have little to do with "Health and Safety".

[Arnold]

Come on Graeme, for once officialdom is being nice and free of red tape, and you worry about being poisoned by the welsh junior squad's cakes...

[IanD]

Having talked to Sally Pygott, and listened to/read comments from others who know a lot more than me, risk assessment never came up - the only topic addressed has been financial.

If the only criteria has been how much the caterer is prepared to pay, with no consideration of the range of food offered or the price charged, I consider this totally unacceptable behaviour on the part of BOF. Not blaming Sally, who is employed to do a job, and presumably is set guidelines within which to work.

If Awk's information is correct, BOF has taken a major step towards downgrading the customer experience at one of it's premier events.

[graeme]

Come on Graeme...

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not scared of anyone's Welsh Cakes. Bring 'em on!
You could all look very silly if the JK caterers have done a tad of market research and turn out to be really good... it's not that hard to make a veggie chilli (and rather more profitable than hogroasting).

BTW Do Wilfs even exist any more? - we seldom see any caterers up here.

[awk]

Having talked to Sally Pygott, and listened to/read comments from others who know a lot more than me, risk assessment never came up - the only topic addressed has been financial.

If the only criteria has been how much the caterer is prepared to pay, with no consideration of the range of food offered or the price charged, I consider this totally unacceptable behaviour on the part of BOF. Not blaming Sally, who is employed to do a job, and presumably is set guidelines within which to work.

If Awk's information is correct, BOF has taken a major step towards downgrading the customer experience at one of it's premier events.

I may have misled by focusing on RA vs financial. Sally did say that the range of what ToW had to offer was important and part of the deal, and that vegetarians, vegans etc. would be catered for. Whether they provide the sort of food that we have come to expect, I've written as a follow up for specific information on, as I wasn't convinced from what she said that either she or Peter Buckley were fully aware of the importance of this to competitors (however, if she wasn't, I suspect she is rapidly coming up to speed!). However, there was no doubt in my mind from what she said that the underlying reason they got the deal was basically financial.

Having said all that, I've no doubt that British Orienteering definitely has taken that major step towards downgrading, as I can't see how ToW can provide the range of food that has been available at previous events from just four vans, but the proof of the pudding will be in the ........ (no, that really is far too groan inspiring!).

[RanaldMacdonald]

It's not just the experience at one of our major events is being downgraded but that it may have knock-on effects to smaller events if our loyal traders are put out of business.

I'm getting quite a few emails off-line giving me further information and asking what more we should do. In my own club the suggestion has been made - as it has been earlier in this thread - that we should put a motion to the AGM, though I'm not sure what form that should take other than to require the Board to include some element of prior experience in contracts. Interestingly, there are different versions of the Partnership Agreement around, one of which clearly makes traders, etc. the responsibility of the Organisers.

I'm led to believe that Sally Pygott has been trying to get further equipment traders, which may hit CompassPoint and Ultrasport just to make more money for BOF.

As I've said earlier, whatever the commercial considerations - and I'm sure they are important - all this is being done without consideration for the longstanding loyalty shown by smaller, specialist traders who are also participants in our sport. Perhaps it is unfashionable to believe in values in the face of a neo-liberal market approach but, hey, one can be old-fashioned.

[Mrs H]

I'm led to believe that Sally Pygott has been trying to get further equipment traders, which may hit CompassPoint and Ultrasport just to make more money for BOF.

That is exactly my point too Ranald - I make no apologies for reposting my original comment from page 1. I'm not too worried about about marginalising the veggies at the JK (haha - that should upset a few people) I'm far more worried about having nothing to eat at my next local event!

The really big problem with this is that the small traders rely on the big events to make their operation worthwhile for the rest of the year. BOF's decision on this will have far reaching effects way beyond the major events.

Don't expect to see food at middle to small scale events in a few years' time. It won't be worth the traders' while to carry on.

......and what happens if the equipment traders go the same way squeezed out by Decathalon style supplier of general running stuff at the JK and BOC - you'll be buggered when your O shoes break just before the next ordinary event.

[distracted]

According to the job description posted for the role, the Events Manager is (among other things) to:

- Support the Board in developing a vision and strategic plan for British Orienteering major events.
- Review and evaluate the delivery of the major events to ensure they meet the needs of the competitors they are staged for

So you have to question whether the Board has decided that one of the goals for the Major Events is to maximise income generation by whatever means possible? The stance on the latter point from the posters on here is already clear.

It's working out how 'commercialisation' can be sustainable in orienteering that is the challenge. Note that the job description for the commercial manager has mention of commission on top of salary - does that encourage short-term thinking?