England win SHIs 2013

[Gross]

Judith W. used to act as secretary & make sure everything ran smoothly..... wouldn't know if things are that organised now.

[JK]

But surely the joint body that represents the 4 home nations is BOF.

Is that correct? I thought Ireland were involved (as opposed to NI). Apologies if I am wrong about that.

[Kitch]

JK,
you are correct.
BOF doesn't represent Eire

As Scotland's team manager at the time I can confirm that the rules changed by agreement with all team managers in 2009.
John Rye (instigated the change proposal)
Niamh O'Boyle
Heather Burrows
Andy Kitchin
I still have relevent emails.

The changes made the Relay day and the Individual day equal in weighting.
Previously relays were of greater influence - probably fair to say too biased. I was happy to balance things out from a Scottish perspective, since it seems logical that the two days should have equal impact. And it makes a better 2 day competition when there is all to play for on the second day.
(eg this year a day 1 lead for England, overturned on day 2 (according to Mharky's 2009 scoring))

Whilst I was team manager John would always confirm with others the rules to be followed. As such the 2009 rules were re-circulated in 2010. They were also held on BOF website but the link no longer works.
I've not been involved since then.
I'd assume the same 2009 rules were applied in 2011, 2012 and should also be applied this year.
Unless there has been cross nation agreement to change them.

Graeme - I have forwarded

[Kitch]

These are they:

Scoring

5. Individual. The individual scores of all the counters in all classes will be totalled, ranked and scored again to determine the outcome of the individual event, as follows;

a. Individual runner scoring.
 Four M/W21 (of 6) to count, scoring 16, 15, 14 etc.
 Two M/W20 (of 3) to count, scoring 8, 7, 6 etc.
 Non-counters do not score (nor are considered in places and therefore score allocation) but may have a tie-breaking effect (qv).
 If there is a tie in individual time the points will be shared equally

b. Team scoring.
All classes, M/W20, M/W21 will score separately
 To derive the team score within a class all the individual scores for a team within that class will be added up, the resulting totals for each nation are then ranked in order.
 For M/W21 the first ranked team will score 8 points, the second 6pts, 3rd 4pts, 4th 2pts.
 For M/W20 the first ranked team will score 7 points, the second 5pts, 3rd 3pts, 4th 1pt.
 If there is a tie in a class the points will be shared equally.
Total points available 72
Maximum possible score 30

c. Nation scoring.
The nation’s score for the individual day will be the total of the team scores across the 4 classes. The aggregate points thus gained will be carried forward (if Day 1) or added to the relay score (if Day 2) for the combined SHI team scores.

d. Tie.
In the event of a tie at Nation scoring the comparative placing of the 5th / 3rd placed runners from the tied nations only across all four classes in the individual race will be used to separate the teams involved in the tie. If still tied then the comparative placing of the 6th placed M21 and W21 should be used.

6. Relay. Men’s and Women’s relay races to be scored separately.

a. Team scoring.
 Two out of 3 relay teams to count:
 In both Men’s and Women’s the scoring will be 8 points for a win, 7 pts for 2nd, 6 pts for 3rd down to 1 pt for 8th.
b. Nation’s third teams do not score (nor are considered in place and therefore score allocation) but may have a tie-breaking effect (qv).
Total points available 72
Maximum possible score 30

c. Nation scoring
The nation’s score for the relay day will be the total of the team scores across 2 classes.
The aggregate points thus gained will be carried forward (if Day 1) or added to the individual score (if Day 2) for the combined SHI team scores.

d. Tie
In the event of a tie at Nation scoring the placing of the 3rd placed team in both classes will be used to separate the teams involved in the tie.

7. Combined Score. Points gained by a nation in the relays (4 teams, 2 x M, 2 x W - are added to the points gained by a nation in the 4 classes in the individual. The winning team is the nation with the most points.

8. Tie. In the event of a tie the nation with the most team wins across the 6 classes will be ranked ahead. If that doesn’t differentiate then the most individual wins will be used. Then team seconds, individual seconds etc.

[Paul Frost]

So if BOF aren't responsible due to Eire's involvement, where should these rules be published?
As having them in 4 peoples individual email accounts wasn't helpful for this years organisers. If they did a Google search, "shi rules orienteering", the top hit is the orienteeringengland.org.uk site with the 2006 rules, with no newer page link to suggest these might be out of date. If they are out of date then they should have been removed from the site or updated to avoid confusion.
There is a BOF site page for Home Internationals and it contains Eligibility Criteria and notes, so it could easily hold a link for the rules even if they are not held on the BOF site.

[AndyC]

Questions
1) did people enjoy the event?
2) did it bring together people from 4 countries in a spirit of sport?

So why not take the Olympic approach and consider the taking part more important than the winning?

So someone won (and was awarded the trophy in good faith) and someone else maybe should have won if the right rules had been used. Both can claim bragging rights until the next one -so twice as many "champions2 -wht's not to like? (don't answer that one I know really)
I wonder if the focus of the sport should be mp4 more people, places, podia and PLEASURE?

[Homer]

Report and explanation of what went on now on the BOF website:

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... 9yZy51ay8=

Congratulations to Scotland.

[graeme]

Questions
1) did people enjoy the event?
2) did it bring together people from 4 countries in a spirit of sport?

Should people who weren't there give an SHI* who won?

[Big Jon]

Should the thread title be changed?

[Homer]

you mean 2013 to 2014 I assume Jon?

[Paul Frost]

You can read a report from the new winning team on the SEDS Blog

[Gross]

I wonder if the focus of the sport should be mp4 more people, places, podia and PLEASURE?

It's about winning, as is the Olympics.

As Paddy Walder once said as this motivational sound was played:

I know feel I want to invade a small country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmg3Wl86kQ

I have never felt so proud to be Scottish as when we started the winning streak with a glorious victory on the field of Bannockburn

[Mrs H]

but you don't even live there Gross

[AndyC]

I have never felt so proud to be Scottish as when we started the winning streak with a glorious victory on the field of Bannockburn

"a winning streak" implies continuous success and there have been a number of Scottish defeats since Bannockburn (and English ones -including some at Wembley and Twickenham) - notably Berwick has been in England since 1482 .... (unless there has been an international orienteering event at Bannockburn that you are referring to..)

[mharky]

Barr Wood is pretty close to Bannockburn