Changes to CRB checks

[lincolnsteve]

It seems the concern that every event official and club helper requiring a CRB check is going to be proven unfounded given the recent changes to the CRB checking process. They are quite specific about who is and isn't eligible for a check. Interestingly Mappers look to be exempt (unless mapping schools very frequently perhaps). I wonder where this will leave us with those schools who are over cautious? It seems to be a big shift from being over cautious to just checking those with the most frequent of contact. Also I note in the wording "vulnerable adults" appears to have been dropped.

I do hope this government are not going too far with their cost cutting and watering down the protection of children to a level where risks are significantly increased. On the flip side it was getting a bit too silly the volume of checks.

Thoughts?

SB

[AndyC]

I'm still trying to get my head around if I need one to help run our clubnights ( I actually have 2 from employment so I check OK). I'm confident that if I'm working with the normal two other coaches (both of whom are orienteering CRB'd) I'm covered even if I wander off with a youngster to show them a technique or clarify something on the ground and I see no issues if I'm coaching a group of youngsters (or youngsters and adults) but if they're not around and I have to coach 1 to 1 (or worse go into First Aid mode)?

[Red Adder]

Do BOF want schools involved in Orienteering. They certainly are NOT helping willing volunteers to map schools. 18 months ago they removed insurance cover - without warning or consultation. When I queried this I got a wishy washy non-answer from the mapping group and attempts to engage with BOF management got no reply at all.

I don't know how schools will react as most like to see evidence of a CRB. Without one I am aware that some schools insist that you are accompanied throughout your survey, even though your contact with children is minimal and in fact generally non existent. Given that you do wander off for a couple of hours are tend to have to root about in obscure and hidden corners I can understand their concerns but should any school wish to impose that stricture on me I would probably decline to map the premises.

Perhaps this is why , after being told at the end of last year I had to renew the CRB (they actually don't have an expiration date, being only truely valid on the day of issue) BOF they managed to misplace the application, prevaricated and then basically ignored my follow-ups - I suppose they knew they would need to sponsor a new check if they held off to now.

[roadrunner]

...or worse go into First Aid mode

I don't think First Aiders need a CRB - it certainly wasn't mentioned on the course I did.

Surely the answer to mapping schools would be to do it when the children weren't there - that ought to avoid any issues?

[Sunlit Forres]

I wonder if this is a regional problem. Most of Moray's schools are mapped and I can't think of a single occasion where a mapper has been asked for CRB (or Disclosure Scotland) verification. Schools mapping has been done through partnership with Active Schools and perhaps the trust established between orienteering and the local school community, through sustained personal contact, has helped with that. I guess that being a relatively small community with a modest, dispersed population might have helped too. I've been going in and out of schools since 2006 and haven't been asked once to show a disclosure certificate.

I feel somewhat frustrated for you Red Adder, and I'm curious to know what hazard you might present, as a school mapper, that requires insuring against. Do you have a contagious disease, or the tendency to spontaneously combust or something? I'm sure someone will educate me.

[andypat]

I think its more to do with the possibility the mapper might injure themself isnt it?

[JK]

I think to be a licensed coach you have an up-to-date FA certificate and a CRB, as well as pass the appropriate course.

What coaching you can do without being licensed, even in the presence of other licensed coaches or other CRB/FA qualified people is a good question.

Since I failed my coaching course after failing to turn up to part 2 after contracting norovirus, looks like I'll be sticking to cyber-coaching of Trail-O on Nopesport and emails for some time to come.

[Gross]

I failed one of the first SOA CRB checks. I was in charge of SEDS & Vice President at the time & submitted my forms.... Donald Petrie contacted me & said I'd been refused.... coz I didn't have a UK address so they couldn't process the application.... stupid

[Red Adder]

to to reply to various comments

In my experience most school don't want you on their premises outside the window of 9:30 to 15:30 weekday term time.

In EA the majority, but not all, schools have been very hot on seeing CRBs, sometimes even insisting on further proof of identity and asking for additional forms to be completed - though most were clearly reacting LEA guidance to be more rigorous in checking CRBs.. More recently they have eased off a bit. Private schools seemed far less worried.

Insurance is third party and covers action that you perform that damages the school / pupils etc. The example I always consider would be leaving a gate open which allowed a young child to run in to the road. The main difficulty in mapping primary schools can be locked gates - at one I had to go through at least 6 to complete the survey. It is actually a serious issue but BOF are not interested. A mapper has never been covered by the Insurance for anything untoward that happens to them (eg twisted ankle on discarded litter). In theory in such circumstances you could take legal action against the school.

[pete.owens]

Is there something in the water in East Anglia that brings out paranoia?

When I have mapped schools they have always been happy to let me wander about unaccompanied, and this has usually involved chatting with curious children at play time. There really is no need for CRB checks for those anyone who might incidentally encounter a child in the course of their work, as opposed to supervising children. That way they would need to wait three weeks to check the plumber before they would allow him to unblock the drains.

Also there is no need for insurance while mapping as you are not doing anything that could result in any damage - or at least nothing that you could just as easily do on the 364 days of the year that you are doing things other than mapping. Do you carry year round 3rd party gate opening insurance that has a clause excluding schools?

[tomtom]

I was once escorted by a groundsman the entire time I spent surveying a rather posh school..

[pete.owens]

I'm still trying to get my head around if I need one to help run our clubnights ( I actually have 2 from employment so I check OK). I'm confident that if I'm working with the normal two other coaches (both of whom are orienteering CRB'd) I'm covered even if I wander off with a youngster to show them a technique or clarify something on the ground and I see no issues if I'm coaching a group of youngsters (or youngsters and adults) but if they're not around and I have to coach 1 to 1 (or worse go into First Aid mode)?

In that case you would be supervised - so no need for a disclosure.

Supervision, in this context, would be an individual being supervised by another person, with that other person being in Regulated Activity and as such having been DBS checked with barring list check. The supervision should be regular, day-to-day (i.e. not remote) and should be consistent e.g. not tail off after an initial training period. The most appropriate person/s to make the decision on level of supervision for a particular position are those at club level requesting the check and as such those who understand the environment where the activities will take place.

ie supervision does not mean permanently looking over you shoulder.

[Mrs H]

I do hope this government are not going too far with their cost cutting and watering down the protection of children to a level where risks are significantly increased. On the flip side it was getting a bit too silly the volume of checks.

Thoughts?

SB

Ha ha ha - well that's two ways of looking at it Let's be positive and claim it as a victory for common sense

[lincolnsteve]

Ha ha ha - well that's two ways of looking at it

Yes, pick the two most extreme views and report on it! Must put my application in to the Daily Mail!