50 shades of grey
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50 shades of grey
SOA is looking to provide some guidance on supporting people with colour blindness as part of an overall review of equality. Anyone know of any good guidance or research regarding colourblindness and what can be done to help?
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: 50 shades of grey
General guidance in producing maps from GIS for public use is where possible to use both symbol and colour to distinguish different classes of object, not just colour. Our GIS manager at work is red/green colour-blind, so we tend to get reminded. Given that orienteering is stuck with IOF mapping specifications, and that there are several different classes of colour-defective vision, options seem limited. Having said that, a B/W copy of an O-map is usually pretty umambiguous to an experienced eye - context usually identifies which feature is which...
... except lines of untagged black crag symbols which no amount of colour vision is going to distinguish from paths / tracks.
So guidance is most probably going to be how best to recognise from context?
... except lines of untagged black crag symbols which no amount of colour vision is going to distinguish from paths / tracks.
So guidance is most probably going to be how best to recognise from context?
- Glucosamine
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Re: 50 shades of grey
I believe that ISOM and ISSOM are designed with colour-blindness in mind, in particular red-green (hence no red on O-maps). It's not going to be possible to fully compensate for
only having two colour cones, but they've already done the best they can.
Spongy and Jethro will no doubt have better insight, but as a planner the main problem I've had is printing purple numbers on dark green. This looks super-clear to me, but apparently not to red-green colour blind folk: a workaround is to have some white space around the number (or put it someplace else).
It's curious that while colour blindness has nothing to do with orienteering and should be compensated for, being able to focus on small detail is regarded as an essential orienteering-skill to be tested.
only having two colour cones, but they've already done the best they can.
Spongy and Jethro will no doubt have better insight, but as a planner the main problem I've had is printing purple numbers on dark green. This looks super-clear to me, but apparently not to red-green colour blind folk: a workaround is to have some white space around the number (or put it someplace else).
It's curious that while colour blindness has nothing to do with orienteering and should be compensated for, being able to focus on small detail is regarded as an essential orienteering-skill to be tested.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: 50 shades of grey
You can download some software to simulate color blindness on your PC (or Mac) from here: http://colororacle.org/. They have a couple of good papers on their "Design Tips" page too, one specifically about making maps for the color blind.
Orienteering maps are pretty good these days for me (being red/green colorblind) but I still get the occasional laser printed one where I can't find the control circles over buildings (on an urban map) or can't tell open areas from medium green forest.
Orienteering maps are pretty good these days for me (being red/green colorblind) but I still get the occasional laser printed one where I can't find the control circles over buildings (on an urban map) or can't tell open areas from medium green forest.
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PeterG - diehard
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Re: 50 shades of grey
The IOF recently posted Revision of the International Specification for Orienteering Maps.
Item 4 on the list is:
So you could save your time and just put in your review that the International body responsible for orienteering is looking into it.
You could also ask a mapping co-ordinator for the 6 Days what they do, as I think they have had to get maps specially printed in the past
I'm aware of several top performing orienteers who suffer from colour vision deficiency, so it could be argued that it's not a major issue for the sport, but I guess that if we can do things to reduce the effect we should.
Item 4 on the list is:
Initial work on issues for colour deficient orienteers (collecting names for a colour reference group, investigations into colour deficiencies).
So you could save your time and just put in your review that the International body responsible for orienteering is looking into it.
You could also ask a mapping co-ordinator for the 6 Days what they do, as I think they have had to get maps specially printed in the past
I'm aware of several top performing orienteers who suffer from colour vision deficiency, so it could be argued that it's not a major issue for the sport, but I guess that if we can do things to reduce the effect we should.
- Paul Frost
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Re: 50 shades of grey
http://www.orienteering.asn.au/news/?ItemID=8885
Australia are doing work into this, seemingly for the IOF. Perhaps BOF will be doing something similar.
Australia are doing work into this, seemingly for the IOF. Perhaps BOF will be doing something similar.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Paul Frost wrote:The IOF recently ...
A phrase which here means "in 2011".
I haven't seen anything about this update since, and the related update to ISSOM which is probably more important since its less well established.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: 50 shades of grey
graeme wrote:Paul Frost wrote:The IOF recently ...
A phrase which here means "in 2011".
I haven't seen anything about this update since, and the related update to ISSOM which is probably more important since its less well established.
Latest (a phrase which here means "last weekend") news from IOF Map Commission here. Apparently progress on their ISOM revision project is "slow and thorough" . Five years so far...
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
I'm a 1%er. Are you?
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Spookster - god
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Oops, I'd seen a link to the Australian item recently but couldn't find it, so did a search on the IOF site and forgot we were in 2013 now, so the December date looked recent.
I guess this sort of thing is going to take years though, finding those affected and then establishing some sort of standard when there there are many forms/levels of deficiency is going to be hard (can't please all of the people any of the time). Then rolling out any changes to colours that have been standard for a long time could be interesting. I know it's not of the same scale or importance, but I keep comparing it with what it would be like to gradually change the UK to driving on the right.
I guess this sort of thing is going to take years though, finding those affected and then establishing some sort of standard when there there are many forms/levels of deficiency is going to be hard (can't please all of the people any of the time). Then rolling out any changes to colours that have been standard for a long time could be interesting. I know it's not of the same scale or importance, but I keep comparing it with what it would be like to gradually change the UK to driving on the right.
- Paul Frost
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Martin's find highlights why you shouldn't only publish important stuff in PDF's. I did a search on "colour deficient" on the IOF site and it didn't find that document (which has that phrase in it). Making content visible and searchable is going to be more important as more devices consume content and present in different formats and screen sizes.
- Paul Frost
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Have only yesterday recommended to the IOF that their "Search" facility indexes the contents of documents (pdfs in particular) rather than just html pages. My recommendation is, I believe, being taken on board.
Compare the results of a search using the IOF website tool with those of a Google site search on the IOF site, e.g. using the one I knocked up at http://www.croesomultiday.org.uk/search-iof. There could be ten times more hits using the latter, showing that the vast majority of the content on the IOF site is in the shape of downloadable files.
Compare the results of a search using the IOF website tool with those of a Google site search on the IOF site, e.g. using the one I knocked up at http://www.croesomultiday.org.uk/search-iof. There could be ten times more hits using the latter, showing that the vast majority of the content on the IOF site is in the shape of downloadable files.
- DJM
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Re: 50 shades of grey
DJM wrote:Have only yesterday recommended to the IOF that their "Search" facility indexes the contents of documents (pdfs in particular) rather than just html pages. My recommendation is, I believe, being taken on board.
It would be nice to think that the result is more content published as HTML rather than downloadable PDF's. Searching PDF's is just treating a symptom. PDF's don't allow text to re-flow to match screen size, so will not be accessible to the increasing number of people using mobile devices.
- Paul Frost
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Not the topic I was expecting....
.... assumed it would be about orienteers' beards.
.... assumed it would be about orienteers' beards.
- Jon Brooke
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Has anyone got access to the IOF Map Specification Wiki www.iomaps.org/ ? If so, maybe we could get a bit of feedback as to how it's going, rather than just the occasional drip-feed we get at present, which says very little.
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Wayward-O - light green
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Re: 50 shades of grey
Jon Brooke wrote:.... assumed it would be about orienteers' beards.
From time to time I hear elite athletes refer to the "IOF Mapping Fundamentalists". I had thought this might be about pyjamas and unkempt beards, but spookster's document gives me pause...
The rules are reasonable and clear when it comes to map scale!
Find a terrain that is suitable for the competition format
This idea that if the facts (of the terrain) don't fit the book, then the facts must be changed does smack of fundamentalism.
I was amused at the "Deviation requests all denied".
I guess that 1m contour interval / purple undergrowth screen WRE didn't ask!
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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