Cancellation - Was it my fault?

[andypat]

And crucially its also bollocks becasue the planner will have planned the event to the anticpated conditions in the expectation that the stream/river will be as mapped with the expectation that competitors will cross it at the most suitable point for their route choice.

If a stream mapped as a crossable watercourse becomes uncrossable due to the level of rainfall, then the organiser is effectively giving the competitor incorrect and potentially dangerously incorrect information on the map. There's a clear risk of liability here.

[RJ]

Exactly.

The organiser, planner and controller have the responsibility for the event. In this case they made a decision. Fifteen years ago WCOC, long before there were Risk Assessment forms, made the decision to cancel their event in similar circumstances.

To repeat what I said before..... thank heavens we have the quality of official looking after our events that they are prepared to accept their responsibilities and put OUR safety at the top of their thinking.

And b******s to all those who say..... but I don't think the risk..... it is a culture too far..... etc. It isn't your bloody call! It is the officials who have taken on the event who have the call. Give it a rest now! I would like to think that there will be officials at future events I plan to attend who will be considering the safety at their event, and not leave it to me to make an adhoc decision when I see a swollen stream when the red line goes straight across it.

[lakesorunner]

Nice reply RJ.
If it wasn't for the organisers/officials, all unpaid and giving up HUGE amounts of time and effort, taking on these (or any) events, there would be nothing for the rest of you to complain about.
Events have been cancelled in the past, rightly or wrongly in some peoples opinion, and they will be again in the future. Get over it. No-one died. There wasn't a catastrophe. All that happened was some people 'wasted' a bit of money on fuel (and possibly some accommodation) going to an event which didn't happen.

[graeme]

not leave it to me to make an adhoc decision ...

I'm not sure you believe that. But I'd like to ask anyone else unwilling to take responsibility for their own safety not to come to any events I'm organising in future.

[Jon Brooke]

If a stream mapped as a crossable watercourse becomes uncrossable due to the level of rainfall, then the organiser is effectively giving the competitor incorrect and potentially dangerously incorrect information on the map. There's a clear risk of liability here.

I've done a couple of mountain marathons where the stream crossings were a bit hairy, even buddied up.

They weren't cancelled.

[Glucosamine]

I remember a partner being washed away in such a crossing and losing her map (saved subsequent disagreements on routechoice ...). We took it as part of the challenge in a MM, but we were carrying more kit if we had had to stop to dry her out. And a Capricorn where I wimped out of a swollen crossing in Galloway, diverting to bridge (though I had swum a loch on Day 1). But decisions are rather more instant in orienteering and I'm not sure I'd trust myself to be sensible in competition. So probably right decision?

[andypat]

If a stream mapped as a crossable watercourse becomes uncrossable due to the level of rainfall, then the organiser is effectively giving the competitor incorrect and potentially dangerously incorrect information on the map. There's a clear risk of liability here.

I've done a couple of mountain marathons where the stream crossings were a bit hairy, even buddied up.

They weren't cancelled.

Remember the stramash with the OMM in 2008 where it went ahead in atrocious conditions and people were effectively missing for 24 hours. I suppose you were there?

[DaveK]

If a stream mapped as a crossable watercourse becomes uncrossable due to the level of rainfall, then the organiser is effectively giving the competitor incorrect and potentially dangerously incorrect information on the map. There's a clear risk of liability here.

I've done a couple of mountain marathons where the stream crossings were a bit hairy, even buddied up.

They weren't cancelled.

Remember the stramash with the OMM in 2008 where it went ahead in atrocious conditions and people were effectively missing for 24 hours. I suppose you were there?

Well 'stramash', that's a new word for me, but Borrowdale, yes, remember it well. I decided that we should retire early on when my (smallish) daughter got blown off her feet for the second time on the way to our first control. Too risky to continue. Thought I'd possibly been a bit wimpish until we saw the many others returning to the assembly and then got the news of the cancellation. It was the OMM after all and the cancellation was a bit of a suprise, but the conditions were truly appalling that day.
I do remember a lot of ill-informed media frenzy at the time (as it was otherwise a quiet weekend news-wise).

As to last Sunday, after hearing of the cancellation from a friend, we resorted to a walk elsewhere in the New Forest - very lovely but extremely wet all around. I really think that we should respect the decision taken as being in our general best interests from a safety perspective; and no doubt taken with a heavy heart given the amount of work put in by the event officials.

[Jon Brooke]

Remember the stramash with the OMM in 2008 where it went ahead in atrocious conditions and people were effectively missing for 24 hours. I suppose you were there?

Alas I missed that one. Wish I had been there actually, so long as my car hadn't been down the flooded road.

Instead I spent a few hours on various bulletin boards rebutting idiot members of the general public with their "how dare these people put the lives of mountain rescue teams at risk that we pay for with our taxes" type comments

Actually it wasn't cancelled because the conditions were considered too severe for the competitors on the course - it was because the overnight camp got flooded.

[King Penguin]

Maybe Venice should have been mapped as "uncrossable lake" for today ?

[Gnitworp]

Gondola O?

[Tatty]

Too deep for gondolas! Canal traffic was stopped as they couldn't get under the bridges

[Roger]

I watched a resident with inadequate boots step gingerly out of her front door onto the fondamenta (Venice canal-side pavement) and pick her way forward a metre or so. She's not going far, I thought --- I was wrong.
Small low boat appeared on the canal, proceeded across the fondamenta to her front door, picked her up and off they went, ducking under the adjacent bridge. After 70 minutes of barefoot wading to get to assembly, much of it knee-deep, I was beginning to wish I had a friend with a small boat. As Tatty says, the big ones weren't running. Some folk wore wellies and stopped on each bridge to empty them out.

[awk]

Ironic isn't it? One week we have event organisers criticised for cancelling an event, the following week we have organisers criticised for not cancelling an event. I know the circumstances, issues etc. (other than they were both water/flood related) were different, but the juxtaposition is an interesting coincidence.

[Olsoran]

Ironic isn't it? One week we have event organisers criticised for cancelling an event, the following week we have organisers criticised for not cancelling an event. I know the circumstances, issues etc. (other than they were both water/flood related) were different, but the juxtaposition is an interesting coincidence.

Yes. Throw the New York marathon into the mix and you have another interesting parallel. Again circumstances were different, not Orienteering of course, although some Orienteers were impacted, amongst many many thousand others. Again water and flood involved. Here organisers were criticised for not cancelling, and then 3 days later when they did cancel they were also criticised – mainly because they left it so late to do so…by which time people had flown literally half way round the world to be there.