Evening everyone. An off-sport post, so apologies if that affronts anyone tonight. But I've affronted someone once already tonight so why stop now… General question: is this typical?
Out cycling round Richmond Park this evening - a common training ride. Beautiful evening and lots of cyclists out, including some clearly very good ones. So, one lap down and heading anti-clockwise up from Robin Hood Gate to Roehampton, I get passed by someone I'd passed earlier. He's a lot taller than me and clearly a lot better. I'm doing 36kph and as he passes I move on to his wheel, doing 38kph. I stick with him up to Roehampton Gate and as he peels out I call out "thank you".
As soon as I turn the corner to head back up to the Star & Garter, someone else (uninvolved) pulls alongside and starts remonstrating with me. Apparently I've hugely offended this new guy. I finally get out of him that I've broken some unwritten etiquette by taking his wheel. After 400m or so offloading his difficult childhood, he heads off up the hill leaving me somewhat bemused and actually quite annoyed. Parting comment: "You're not fit to ride his wheel."
My 8 year old son has been massively inspired by cycling through the TdF and the Olympics. I want to cultivate this (obviously) and so I'd been looking in to what cycling clubs in SW London offer. If this evening's event is typical of the attitude of your average club cyclist, I'm very disappointed. I prefer the Bradley Wiggins version.
Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
16 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
Some of the guys riding around Richmond Park are pretty competitive and maybe forget their manners. Some also follow the sport very closely and can identify the pro riders others might not recognise, and wouldn't presume to take their wheel because they don't feel worthy. Maybe you were on the wheel of a pro without realising it - in which case, good for you. But maybe some of these inadequate guys also hold the pro riders in such awe they can't bear it when a normal person turns up and does what they don't dare to by getting a bit of a tow.
I doubt the guy you followed had a problem. If he was that bothered, and that good, he'd have just dropped you. It's the other one that's out of order. Was he wearing club / team kit? I'm aware of one club rider who was actually kicked out of his club for aggressive behaviour after someone complained. So if you know the club / team and can describe the rider / bike, action might be taken.
I doubt the guy you followed had a problem. If he was that bothered, and that good, he'd have just dropped you. It's the other one that's out of order. Was he wearing club / team kit? I'm aware of one club rider who was actually kicked out of his club for aggressive behaviour after someone complained. So if you know the club / team and can describe the rider / bike, action might be taken.
- Gingersinger
- string
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:29 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
healthilyskeptical wrote:move on to his wheel ..... taking his wheel
For the recreational cyclist, is this about slip-streaming?
As a family we're getting quite keen on cycling and a couple of us were thinking of moving up a level - perhaps joining a club. But I'm worried now. There's cycling etiquette? And a new language to learn!
-
HarryO - orange
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:52 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
Hi HarryO - yes, this is about slip-streaming. Same concern as you about this - hence the post - but I can reassure you that this was the first instance in a year of fairly regular cycling round the Park. That said, I do think there's a bit more attitude among some parts of the cycling crowd than in orienteering. I sense there's a bit of bike snobbery and occasional disdain for time trailers from roadies, etc. I'm not going to let this put me off.
GingerSinger - thanks for the reply. I did look to see if he had a club jersey, but it wasn't one of the obvious ones (London Dynamo, Kingston Wheelers, etc) as far as I could tell. Too surprised by the vitriol to take detailed notes, but will do time! The guy I followed was very tall, riding a blue and white Cube bike and clearly in a different league to me. Another friend has echoed your comment - if he'd had an issue, I've no doubt he'd have ridden me off his wheel.
GingerSinger - thanks for the reply. I did look to see if he had a club jersey, but it wasn't one of the obvious ones (London Dynamo, Kingston Wheelers, etc) as far as I could tell. Too surprised by the vitriol to take detailed notes, but will do time! The guy I followed was very tall, riding a blue and white Cube bike and clearly in a different league to me. Another friend has echoed your comment - if he'd had an issue, I've no doubt he'd have ridden me off his wheel.
- healthilyskeptical
- string
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:16 am
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
healthilyskeptical wrote:- if he'd had an issue, I've no doubt he'd have ridden me off his wheel.
Yep or invited you through to punch the hole in the wind
hop fat boy, hop!
-
madmike - guru
- Posts: 1703
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: Retired in North Yorks
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
healthilyskeptical wrote:Out cycling round Richmond Park this evening ... doing 36kph and as he passes I move on to his wheel, doing 38kph
...only a few kph above the speed limit then?
- Mr Chips
- orange
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: London
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
I don't see anything wrong with what you did in getting on the faster rider's wheel, especially as you acknowledge the tow.
What annoys me when cyclists jump on my wheel is the lack of acknowledgement of towing them along.
What annoys me when cyclists jump on my wheel is the lack of acknowledgement of towing them along.
- charles2
- orange
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:50 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
If it is of any interest there is a long thread on just this issue on the forum on tht FRA website
- mykind
- orange
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 pm
- Location: Keswick
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
mykind wrote:If it is of any interest there is a long thread on just this issue on the forum on tht FRA website
Cheers mykind. I found a full set of Rules in the thread http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/, now its all clear
- AndyO
- green
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:05 pm
- Location: Howe o' the Mearns
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
charles2 wrote:What annoys me when cyclists jump on my wheel is the lack of acknowledgement of towing them along.
Interesting - sounds like you are annoyed - he jumps on your wheel and gains from it - and you lose....?
Far from it, you may be "towing him along" but you are actually benefiting from his presence - I know it seems to defy the laws of motion, but the air pressure behind you is higher than it would otherwise have been, thus you are propelled (albeit slightly) by his proximity. You are both gaining an advantage.
So next time thank each other!
Actually I once had a guy tail me for a mile in the rain, get soaked with spray and then complain about me not having mudguards
- Ali Wood
- yellow
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 3:43 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
hmmm I pretty sure that that does defy the laws of physics.
If there are two riders. The second rider gains a lot from "the tow".
The first rider is penalised from having the second rider in his wake. Essentially the viscous pressure drag from the the first rider is increased as the streamlines do not coalesce as quickly behind his bike, due to the presence of the second rider.
Therefore the lead rider is doing more work than if they were riding by themselves.
This assumes that the lead rider is going less than the speed of sound. If the lead rider was going over the speed of sound (M>1) then this would not hold. As the first rider would not feel the presence of the second rider as pressure gradients cannot be transmitted upstream.
The total work that the system of two riders is doing will be less then twice each rider working independently. When extroplated to many riders this explains why pelotons can easily catch a sole rider.
So bascially that's why it's rude to get a tow without asking, or sharing of the time at the front (worK).
If there are two riders. The second rider gains a lot from "the tow".
The first rider is penalised from having the second rider in his wake. Essentially the viscous pressure drag from the the first rider is increased as the streamlines do not coalesce as quickly behind his bike, due to the presence of the second rider.
Therefore the lead rider is doing more work than if they were riding by themselves.
This assumes that the lead rider is going less than the speed of sound. If the lead rider was going over the speed of sound (M>1) then this would not hold. As the first rider would not feel the presence of the second rider as pressure gradients cannot be transmitted upstream.
The total work that the system of two riders is doing will be less then twice each rider working independently. When extroplated to many riders this explains why pelotons can easily catch a sole rider.
So bascially that's why it's rude to get a tow without asking, or sharing of the time at the front (worK).
- funnyrunner
- string
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:17 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
Funnyrunner, from what I've read the most efficient cycling shape is around 4 times longer than it's cross-section. In theory, the leading rider gains a small advantage from being drafted because their joint shape is longer, but a lot depends on how close the riders are. In Nascar racing a closely drafted leading car gains speed. I'm not sure I've noticed the difference cycling, but the thought it might help makes me feel better!
- runmap
- string
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:34 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
I think I'd probably have moved very quickly into anglo saxon mode with the second guy.
I admire your restraint.
I admire your restraint.
- Jon Brooke
- red
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:11 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
runmap, could be true, what I wrote was based mainly on my thoughts. Not specific reading on the low speed aerodynamics of cycling. I would still be surprised. May be particularly relevant to fat cyclists
- funnyrunner
- string
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:17 pm
Re: Cycling etiquette: did I miss the memo?
On the ITV4 Tour de France programme a couple of nights ago Chris Boardman showed that a cyclist who is being drafted does indeed gain a little from the effect of the airflow behind him/her no longer being churned up, but now flowing round the cyclist behind.
The effort Ned was putting in dropped from 400W to 388W when a cyclist was behind him, so not a huge reduction, but better than nothing!
The effort Ned was putting in dropped from 400W to 388W when a cyclist was behind him, so not a huge reduction, but better than nothing!
- charles2
- orange
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:50 pm
16 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests