Closed and open clubs

[mharky]

Which junior relay was won by a super-club?

[LostAgain]

LostAgain
‘If the cap fits, wear it’. I was trying to keep the point neutral and not discuss individuals. However, your response raises 2 questions

1. How does running a junior relay assist the personal development of a top M16 compared to running in an adult relay? I would have thought it was the other way round.
2. Are you suggesting that clubs with low numbers of juniors/M 21s etc should try to recruit from other clubs instead of going out in their local area and finding their own?

Both the JK and BOC have relay classes where clubs with low numbers can fit runners in.

You may think I’m moaning/bitching/pouring scorn/showing disapproval. I think I am asking a legitimate question.
You may be playing by the rules, I’m asking if it is fair and in the right spirit.

I'm surprised by this. You are the same person who condones and encourages the behaviour discussed here by LOC viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12732&start=60
and then has the audacity to bitch about a junior wanting to get relevant relay experience when they are a member of essentially a closed adults club.

[greywolf]

The BOF rules say:
1.2.8 A ‘closed club’ is a club that restricts membership to individuals associated with an institution (for example: school, college, university, firm, army regiment) ...
And for example the BAOC website says: "Membership is open to all past, present or even future Army personnel, their dependants and anyone else who has connections with Army orienteering."
By that measure, there's no reason Uni clubs couldn't be open to ex-students, teachers, their partners and kids etc - although obviously these wouldn't be eligible to run at BUCS.

Anyone know what the membership rules are for e.g. EUOC, SHUOC - couldn't find them online

[Rockaldo]

i've always been keen on a NFL/NBA style draft for the whole of British Orienteering

GG to MDDXO
Scotia to LINOC
Rocky to ELO....

Anyone else keen?

Get yourself an auction hammer.

[Red Adder]

My concern with someone joining a club that is not close to their normal home would be whether their O activity would then be pretty much limited to competing - with very little input to the voluntary effort - be it mapping / event organisation / club management / coaching that are essential to keeping costs down and the sport going. If that were the case I would consider them being a little selfish (In contrast I know of people who run for a "remote" club but also help out at their local club, or who more than "do a shift" for both their open and closed clubs).

[Blonde bombshell]

You are very defensive about this and your language is a bit strong.

I initially asked the question because in the back of my mind was a rule about neighbouring clubs forming competitive relay teams.
I couldn't understand how a club 180 miles away was a neighbouring club.

I understand why a junior would like to run in a junior relay and the problems with being a member of a pre-dominantly adult club.
I now know that no rule has been broken and if the junior was running for a neighbouring team that would seem eminently sensible. It is the huge distance between the two clubs that gives me a problem.

Reading the topic in 2004 it seems those in favour of the system were those who moved clubs or were in clubs accepting the new members. Some of the talk was of better training and coaching offered by the new clubs. In the example I raised I can’t see that being relevant.

How the other junior teams react to this will be interesting. It should make some exciting racing at BOC.

[mharky]

http://www.norwegianspring.no/dok/resul ... HAXPEN.HTM

Results form Vårstafetten in Norway, a reasonably big relay, but something seems wrong about the winning men's "club"...

[madmike]

My concern with someone joining a club that is not close to their normal home would be whether their O activity would then be pretty much limited to competing - with very little input to the voluntary effort - be it mapping / event organisation / club management / coaching that are essential to keeping costs down and the sport going. If that were the case I would consider them being a little selfish (In contrast I know of people who run for a "remote" club but also help out at their local club, or who more than "do a shift" for both their open and closed clubs).

So I am more than 900 miles from my open (UK) club - should I resign my membership then?

[LostAgain]

How the other junior teams react to this will be interesting. It should make some exciting racing at BOC.

I suspect at BOC it will be irrelevant. There is no class for 16's so they have to run up on the M18's. It is likely SYO will have an M18's Team, last years Mis-punched Winning team and an M16's Team. However, SYO policy is to finalise on merit from the individual days results.

The M16's team will be strong, but they Silver medalled at the JK against 16's so it will be difficult for them against the 18's. Good experience for next year though...

[pgupnorth]

SPLOT entered the Compass Sport Trophy a few years back before BOF changed the 2 club thing.

Peter

[DM]

I suspect at BOC it will be irrelevant. There is no class for 16's so they have to run up on the M18's. It is likely SYO will have an M18's Team, last years Mis-punched Winning team and an M16's Team. However, SYO policy is to finalise on merit from the individual days results.

Small correction needed here. The team that crossed the finishing line first mis punched and was therefore not the winning team.

[LostAgain]

I suspect at BOC it will be irrelevant. There is no class for 16's so they have to run up on the M18's. It is likely SYO will have an M18's Team, last years Mis-punched Winning team and an M16's Team. However, SYO policy is to finalise on merit from the individual days results.

Small correction needed here. The team that crossed the finishing line first mis punched and was therefore not the winning team.

Correction accepted, apologies for mis-wording. 1st and 2nd team across the line mis-punched and therefore invalidated their runs. I believe the 3rd across the line was SROC who completed the courses correctly and therefore won.
A minor rule infringement not getting all the correct controls, but orienteers tend to be insistent upon this rule.

[DM]

Correction accepted, apologies for mis-wording. 1st and 2nd team across the line mis-punched and therefore invalidated their runs. I believe the 3rd across the line was SROC who completed the courses correctly and therefore won.
A minor rule infringement not getting all the correct controls, but orienteers tend to be insistent upon this rule.

Apology accepted Lost, but you could have given the full story that the relay was in fact a clean sweep for the NW with 1st SROC, 2nd MDOC and 3rd LOC !

[awk]

Blonde Bombshell:
This system has been in use for years. In all that time, it has worked very effectively, based on the premise that we live in a reasonably free country, and that people are allowed to join whatever open club they wish to join. Yes, there have been instances of what you describe as 'super-club' type teams, and some have achieved success. That's the nature of all sport. However, I think it is generally recognised that trying to force some residency or similar requirement on the system would be completely unworkable, and rather more counter-productive than any other alternative.

Having said that, I have to admit to a possible bias: offspring and I changed open clubs when he was around 10 or 11, primarily to give him an opportunity to run in relay teams at the bigger events. Ironically, we changed from a club whose catchment we lived, (and live, outside of, to the club in whose catchment we already lived!

(Incidentally, whilst Lost Again's family may indeed run for SYO, they have been observed helping at another local club's events in addition to their SYO commitments!).

[Bart]

While on the thread of this individual moving to a club 180 miles away, just a small question. As he is now registered in two different regions, which region is he now a member of as this will have eligibility issues for the JIRCS? (Junior Inter-Regional Championships)