Junior point allocation in the NUL

[andypat]

The guidelines are the same but does that mean the risks are the same?

Mrs H has fairly well stated the differing perceived risks between the two categories.

Worht remembering that M/W12 categories includes complete novices as well as the offspring of the orienteering elite!

[Mrs H]

Thanks Andy

Yes the guidelines may be the same for under 12s as under 16s, but that doesn't mean they mean the same. The crucial bit is the wording of care "over and above that of a careful parent". I've thought long and hard about this and concluded that a careful parent takes a different level of care for a child aged 8 and a child aged 15 - for instances crossing a road. I would have looked a bit silly holding the hand of a 6ft tall 15 year old Young Neville to cross the road. Airlines seem happy for anyone over the age of 14 to travel unaccompanied. etc etc.

We have provided a course which we think is too hard for a novice under 12 but hopefully will provide a varied if rather short challenge for an under 16. We have a safe park we can provide a sprint style race for the under 12s. We want everyone t have fun and be safe.

There is a world of difference between a 10 year old and a 15 year old - as I'm sure you're about to find out Graeme

What are the St Andrew's people thoughts on the scoring matter?

[graeme]

Not sure why you're making this personal... To be clear: james (age 12) is M14, and would be a major beneficiary of what you're doing. I assume he will benefit from St.Andrews' splitting of 12 and 16. I couldn't, shouldn't and wouldn't say anything about whether courses I haven't seen in a town far far away were safe, beyond perhaps "I know and trust the organisers".

My point is, quite simply, that young juniors can cope with quite tricky courses as long as they're safe. Note, for example, that the British Schools have decided that "score" (run all round the area looking for flags) is the best format for complete novices. My experience here is limited to the "Perthshire schools champs" which was simply a score based on the PWT controls. That may not have engendered much orienteering, but lots of kids had lots of fun running round a confined area, with the added excitement of "doing the elite controls".

(another key question for you is whether M/W12 are allowed to run 16-.)

[smf]

What are the St Andrew's people thoughts on the scoring matter?

I won't have the final say, but I would expect this

If there are going to be lots of events with 12- courses perhaps we ought to have a separate category. Where both age-groups share a course they can still be scored separately; where they don't there's no problem.

It's 10 minutes' work for me to amend the age categories. If the Nope Gods don't wish to extend the official classes down to 12- then, in the spirit of the original urban league, I'm willing to set this up anyway -- for interest only. This doesn't imply that 12- can't run the 16- course, where they're permitted to do so, but would perhaps add some extra incentive for the youngsters to come along.

'Superjunior' is clearly wrong, so should we have Ultrajunior or Infrajunior? Or status quo?

BOF guideline E calls them "Young Junior Men" and "Young Junior Women" which is the labeling we have used for St Andrews. This also seems to be the labeling used for the Malvern urban event.

[Roger]

BOF guideline E calls them "Young Junior Men" and "Young Junior Women" which is the labeling we have used for St Andrews. This also seems to be the labeling used for the Malvern urban event.

I've now added Urban League Categories MYJ and WYJ, and have split the Edinburgh results so that M/W 10 and 12 have transferred to the new categories. If any of the new Young Juniors wishes to transfer back to the older category then please contact me.

Unfortunately the new categories are at the end of the displayed set -- I defined the sorting to be 'as input' rather than alphabetical, so that the other categories could appear nicely as J, O, V, SV, UV. Next year's set will be in the natural order.

I will add the new categories to the regional urban leagues too.

[Roger]

Unfortunately the new categories are at the end of the displayed set...

Sorted: young to old.

[Mrs H]

Thank you Roger for that - I will tell Ancient Grouse.

[andypat]

Think thats a sensible move. Have amended the SOUL guidleines to conform.