cbg, the codes should've read 242-209 so not on your course, checkout routegadget on course 6 controls 8-9 course 9 contols 2-3.Coming south from the oval shaped building work just east of the Barbican. Turn east at the T junction first road running south has a solid black line across it. The gate was open, I saw people go down there and others that have marked it on routegadget, but the line is solid. Substantiated enough?
drobin, the guy with his hand through the fence at 193 on course 2, & 11 amongst others was definitely English as he didn't agree with me pointing out the error of his ways.
4th CIty of London Race
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Urban wrote:the codes should've read 242-209 so not on your course, checkout routegadget on course 6 controls 8-9 course 9 contols 2-3.Coming south from the oval shaped building work just east of the Barbican. Turn east at the T junction first road running south has a solid black line across it. The gate was open, I saw people go down there and others that have marked it on routegadget, but the line is solid. Substantiated enough?
Absolutely, same gate pointed out by Spookster. One won't be able to tell from splits, as the next turning not much further on.
Since so many people have voluntarily admited that they went down that route, there is obviously a communication issue; youy can't accuse people of 'cheating' if they don't do it deliberately. They are wrong, but possibly haven't understood the rules. Would it p*** them off to DSQ them? Probably not, as long as you could catch everyone, as they have still had their full race. But it's one sure way of stopping honesty on Routegadget; or rather it will stop people putting on their route, if they may be penalised for a route that they don't understand (doh!) is wrong.
Since you can't be sure of DSQing everyone who went that way, should the course be Void?
I hope that it will be pointed out (for education) in the Planner's/Controller's Comments.
Next time, wire up an electric fence to anywhere liable to have people putting their arms through an Uncrossable boundary!
- cbg
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Well I've said it before so I'll say it again:
I take this opportunity to repeat my suggestion of the option of "withdrawn" (WD) on the results to denote someone who does just that - an honourable status for someone who subsequently realises an honest mistake as opposed to someone who genuinely mispunched (MP) or someone who was caught cheating (DQ).
Then we'd all know what was what and I would confidently predict a dramatic fall in the number of people cheating
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Mrs H - god
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Re the map, specifically the Barbican area with its multilevels, is there a case for using a darker shade of paved area for level 1 then level 2 where that level is exposed from above? Similar to distinction between urban and non-urban paved areas for ISSOM. That would improve clarity in the Barbican area (and elsewhere) as using 1 shade definitely introduced a bit more luck into route choice decisions.
- ianandmonika
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Glucosamine wrote: Is there not a climb in the Peak called cemetery gates?
It's on Dinas Cromlech in Llanberis Pass in Snowdonia, on the nose between Cenotaph Corner and Ivy Sephulcre. I'm pretty sure it was named by Joe Brown or Don Whillans after the first ascent on return to Manchester when seeing "Cemetry Gates" as the destination on the front of a bus !
curro ergo sum
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
UK Cup scores now updated from the City Race: http://www.ukcup.org.uk/
- Duncan
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
I asked Ollie about the gate yesterday (after I ran round because it was marked uncrossable). Apparently this gate is usually locked on a Saturday, and has a notice on it that says it's open Monday to Friday but locked at the weekends - so this is why it was marked uncrossable. Not sure why it was open yesterday.
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Great event - thoroughly enjoyed it. Combined with today's ultrasprint, it made one of the best weekends this year. A very big thanks to all concerned for both races.
I'm going to differ from at least one previous poster though: the Barbican was really interesting flowing into the estate to the north, but the rest I felt was pretty straightforward this year - not as technical as previous years. It also meant that the last two legs in the Barbican on course 7 weren't as technical as they might otherwise have been - there was a fair amount of time to prepare for them. No less enjoyable though (and a great event centre, especially with the eating just across the water!).
I'm going to differ from at least one previous poster though: the Barbican was really interesting flowing into the estate to the north, but the rest I felt was pretty straightforward this year - not as technical as previous years. It also meant that the last two legs in the Barbican on course 7 weren't as technical as they might otherwise have been - there was a fair amount of time to prepare for them. No less enjoyable though (and a great event centre, especially with the eating just across the water!).
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Just got back to Glasgow from the sprint event today. Both events were fantastic and well worth the trip. It felt a bit like an Urban Championships (theres a thought) with all the overseas competitiors. Definitely scope for some merchandising in future? The Barbican area was definitely the crux. My better half DNF after 30min on her number 2.
I struggled with 1-2 on my course Mvet despite the info in the final details. In fact I think I misinterpreted the explanation and in any event shouldnt have gone that way as it wasnt the quickest. Had a jog round after the event with 180minuteman to see where the long tunnel went as neither if us were sure (just in case for next year ).
I guess that would be my only comment for the mapper who has done a great job getting something on paper which is viable from that part of the area. Would there be a way of showing more clearly the ends of the tunnel using the kickbacks (similar to bridges)? I didnt use the tunnel during the race as I wasnt confident enough that the other end opened out somewhere. Thats definitely just feedback though not criticism as its definitely a showcase map for Urban O. Best (toughest) yet for me!
I struggled with 1-2 on my course Mvet despite the info in the final details. In fact I think I misinterpreted the explanation and in any event shouldnt have gone that way as it wasnt the quickest. Had a jog round after the event with 180minuteman to see where the long tunnel went as neither if us were sure (just in case for next year ).
I guess that would be my only comment for the mapper who has done a great job getting something on paper which is viable from that part of the area. Would there be a way of showing more clearly the ends of the tunnel using the kickbacks (similar to bridges)? I didnt use the tunnel during the race as I wasnt confident enough that the other end opened out somewhere. Thats definitely just feedback though not criticism as its definitely a showcase map for Urban O. Best (toughest) yet for me!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Jayne wrote:I asked Ollie about the gate yesterday (after I ran round because it was marked uncrossable). Apparently this gate is usually locked on a Saturday, and has a notice on it that says it's open Monday to Friday but locked at the weekends - so this is why it was marked uncrossable. Not sure why it was open yesterday.
I've just had another look at this on the map. Given that the solid black line is immediately backed by some canopy - isn't it possibly that runners approaching finding it open might not have construed that the uncrossable element was at another level? We had been rather prepped to expect that sort of thing and before you ask I don't have a clue how I did that leg as I had someone very hot on my heels i was trying to loose - but minutes before I had run under another couple of black lines being an overhead stairway on the way to the oval garden which I'm assuming was entirely in order.
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
No Mrs H. It was a high gate reaching the top of an archway. The canopy being the archway gracing the north end of the thoroughfare.
I do like your honourable self declaring suggestion.
I do like your honourable self declaring suggestion.
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Perhaps I should do it myself as I can't tell whether i made the honest mistake
I should have quoted the bit before as well which was the scenario of the "quiet word" by organisers to competitors suspected of infringements, honest or otherwise. after all, if you don't know you made a mistake it's hard to own up to it - but if you do know and you are offered an honorable way out then hopefully you'll take it and be a little more honest next time. It was that element which I felt confident would dramatically reduce the instances of cheating in future.
I should have quoted the bit before as well which was the scenario of the "quiet word" by organisers to competitors suspected of infringements, honest or otherwise. after all, if you don't know you made a mistake it's hard to own up to it - but if you do know and you are offered an honorable way out then hopefully you'll take it and be a little more honest next time. It was that element which I felt confident would dramatically reduce the instances of cheating in future.
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
cbg wrote:Absolutely, same gate pointed out by Spookster. One won't be able to tell from splits, as the next turning not much further on.
Since you can't be sure of DSQing everyone who went that way, should the course be Void?
Dont really understand this comment. As Mrs H herself has admitted, at times you may not always know exactly where you are on this map! If you simplify the leg in question its left at the T junction then right down the first opening. The fact that the first opening on the ground wasnt the first marked on the map shouldnt I think be a cause for DQing anyone. I know we've had this debate before and I know it polarises opinion, but just wanted to put forward the case for the defence (since it wasnt on my course I am a neutral on this one!)
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Thanks to all involved in both days - very much enjoyed them both. Having not been before I now know how brilliant it is and would love to return in future years.
And glad we had the warning about some possible sightseeing - me not being very fit/able to run far took my camera and was both orienteer and tourist on Saturday!
Thanks!
And glad we had the warning about some possible sightseeing - me not being very fit/able to run far took my camera and was both orienteer and tourist on Saturday!
Thanks!
- Lucy.F.
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Re: 4th CIty of London Race
Like many others, I fell foul of the open gate. I was mortified when I discovered what I'd done and I've owned up to it on Route Gadget and explained the (flawed) logic behind my transgression in the comments box, offering myself up for disqualification. Does anybody - such as the planner or controller - actually read the comments on Route Gadget?
And if Mrs H's suggestion of voluntarily withdrawing for cheating were to be adopted, would Route Gadget comments be one possible way of doing so?
And if Mrs H's suggestion of voluntarily withdrawing for cheating were to be adopted, would Route Gadget comments be one possible way of doing so?
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