Only today seen your post. I can offer help.
Are you going to BKO at The Lookout on Saturday? Could meet.
Or could offer 121 sessions Deepcut/Frith/Mytchett area in weekday evenings.
Coaching help
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Re: Coaching help
I don't think the UKCC system is geared to a small sport like orienteering with lots of small clubs.
I know of two recently qualified coaches who just can't get the yellow/orange level interest in their clubs to build up a portfolio let alone move on to level 2.
I feel there is room for "trainers" in orienteering - experienced competitors who have not had to go through a course but who could take on training sessions with a variety of exercises -star and self placing events etc, and who could answer questions or lead a discussion about techniques afterwards.
Fitness training runs as club events make it so much easier, but these days you seem to need a qualified coach to organise one.
I'm sure you'll find the local running club goes out at least twice a week with out all that nonsense.
We are coming up to the fiftieth anniversary of British orienteering. I don't think if back then there had been all the rules and restrictions we have now, orienteering would have ever got started.
How is a new club meant to get off the ground now?
I know of two recently qualified coaches who just can't get the yellow/orange level interest in their clubs to build up a portfolio let alone move on to level 2.
I feel there is room for "trainers" in orienteering - experienced competitors who have not had to go through a course but who could take on training sessions with a variety of exercises -star and self placing events etc, and who could answer questions or lead a discussion about techniques afterwards.
Fitness training runs as club events make it so much easier, but these days you seem to need a qualified coach to organise one.
I'm sure you'll find the local running club goes out at least twice a week with out all that nonsense.
We are coming up to the fiftieth anniversary of British orienteering. I don't think if back then there had been all the rules and restrictions we have now, orienteering would have ever got started.
How is a new club meant to get off the ground now?
- Taybank
- white
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Re: Coaching help
jtc wrote:How is a new club meant to get off the ground now?
Simple, easy, no problem.... use google.... find an expert in 'hoop jumping'.... sorted
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Coaching help
Taybank wrote:I don't think the UKCC system is geared to a small sport like orienteering with lots of small clubs.
I know of two recently qualified coaches who just can't get the yellow/orange level interest in their clubs to build up a portfolio let alone move on to level 2.
I feel there is room for "trainers" in orienteering - experienced competitors who have not had to go through a course but who could take on training sessions with a variety of exercises -star and self placing events etc, and who could answer questions or lead a discussion about techniques afterwards.
Fitness training runs as club events make it so much easier, but these days you seem to need a qualified coach to organise one.
I'm sure you'll find the local running club goes out at least twice a week with out all that nonsense.
I think I'm right in saying the activities on the level 1 course could be used to teach up to light green standard. It was more advanced than I expected. There are exercises on attack points and aiming off and there is a map walk exercise and nothing to stop discussing contour interpretation etc as you walk. But yes we had the same experience getting interest within the club for yellow/orange standard. What we do now is:
- have the coaching after a mass start/finish score events. New orienteers seem keener to go to something after an event than a special coaching morning, though some clubs have had success with their club nights.
- do more publicity to get more newcomers.
Trainers? I think if you do something at an event, insurance is covered by the event so I think anyone can do this, so long as the controller (if there is one) is happy.
Weekly runs. I've been told that we are not insured if we organise a club weekly run. It has to be registered as an event or an activity (activity = organised by a qualified coach). That does seem daft. Do running clubs have insurance that covers weekly runs? Or are they not worrying about the insurance?
If you've got a permanent orienteering course then I think you could register an event every week and advertise it as a "meet at 7.30 on a thursday DIY event". People could then choose to "orienteer" in a group/groups, possibly forgetting to visit controls as they run together . You can then get your level 1 hoop jumping qualification. Anyone see a flaw in this logic?
- SeanC
- god
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Re: Coaching help
SeanC wrote: think I'm right in saying the activities on the level 1 course could be used to teach up to light green standard
and that is part of the problem... the entire thing seems geared to teaching orienteering not coaching it
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Coaching help
Yes it's true, the level 1 course was mainly about exercises. There was some stuff about "Long Term Athletic Development". Gross, you obviously know your stuff on coaching. Are you involved in the coaching program? If not are you aware UKCC qualified coaches now have to do "continuing professional development"? I have mixed feelings about this, but this is an opportunity for those that have been on the course to learn some more skills/knowledge. We have to score points for new knowledge by attending courses or reading "approved" online material. There isn't any yet. So far I have a massive 1 point for going to Nick Barrable's talk on sports psychology . Why don't you suggest/submit to the coaching committee something for us to read that is missing from the level 1/2 courses?
Going back to Taybank's point, it would help if there were coaching courses at the multiday events. I might be more keen to do level 2 for example if it were in the afternoons during Croeso and this would encourage a few more to the event. I remember an area opposite the Plant Breeding Station with the station used for a classroom?
Going back to Taybank's point, it would help if there were coaching courses at the multiday events. I might be more keen to do level 2 for example if it were in the afternoons during Croeso and this would encourage a few more to the event. I remember an area opposite the Plant Breeding Station with the station used for a classroom?
- SeanC
- god
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Re: Coaching help
SeanC wrote:Gross, you obviously know your stuff on coaching. Are you involved in the coaching program? If not are you aware UKCC qualified coaches now have to do "continuing professional development"?
No.... not involved in the coaching programme... done the level 1 & 2 courses but thought they were a great hoop jumping exercise from my view point... and absolutely no interest in gaining points for this & that so I can jump through one more hoop
There needs to be a real division in the system that differentiates between teaching kids / adults / whoever how to orienteering and coaching athletes. As far as I can see there isn't & there is no hope of it happening in the near or middle future...
I find it strange that a complete novice orienteer can come along to a 2 day course & call themselves a coach !!!
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Coaching help
In reply to Sean C's comment "the level 1 course was mainly about exercises" - this is not so. The Teaching Orienteering courses aimed at teachers are about DOING the activities but the focus on the UKCC course is about HOW to coach i.e.organising, communicating,observing,keeping it safe and making it fun, using questioning, giving feedback, demonstrating and evaluating. The activities are used as a vehicle for the candidates to practice these skills.
MrsB
MrsB
- MrsB
- string
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Re: Coaching help
Apologies - it sounds like I may have irritated you by not doing the course justice Mrs B. As I've said in previous posts, I thought the level 1 course was excellent and yes looking back there were plenty of people skills taught - the praise sandwich etc. I humbly apologise.
But... and this is probably something that comes from UKCC/Sport England etc, I understand that as a licenced coach I am only licensed to coach the 20 odd activities on the course coaching cards. If I've been assessed to have the people skills to coach, and have about 20 years orienteering experience, it's then quite frustrating to have this restriction (though workarounds are possible). Perhaps this is where the thought came from.
But... and this is probably something that comes from UKCC/Sport England etc, I understand that as a licenced coach I am only licensed to coach the 20 odd activities on the course coaching cards. If I've been assessed to have the people skills to coach, and have about 20 years orienteering experience, it's then quite frustrating to have this restriction (though workarounds are possible). Perhaps this is where the thought came from.
- SeanC
- god
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Re: Coaching help
Once you've put your coaching skills into practice at level 1 and gained some expereince of coaching, given your years of orienteering experience you should easily be able to move up to do the level 2 course which will enable you to coach to TD 4 and 5. The Level 2 course builds on the basics coaching skills learned on the level 1 course and looks at how to effectively plan, conduct and evaluate orienteering coaching sessions without supervision. There's an awful lot more to good coaching than just putting out a few controls and sending people off around them!
Why not get yourself onto a level 2 course and find out!
Happy coaching!
Why not get yourself onto a level 2 course and find out!
Happy coaching!
- MrsB
- string
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Re: Coaching help
MIE wrote:The AOA do run intermediate courses on weekends -- one or two days
but you are strongly advised to attend both.
I don't have a weekend schedule to hand but you could e-mail the
listed person on the BAOC website for the mid-week courses and ask
what the schedule is, and if there are any free places.
I do now
"Performance Coaching Weekends(at Long Valley)" 4/5th June and 23rd/24th July
"Mappers Course (at Longmoor)" 23rd/24th July
See the BAOC website ( http://www.baoc.org.uk ) for details.
And be quick if you want to attend as places were filling up after the event today (at Bordon).
- MIE
- green
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Re: Coaching help
MIE wrote:"Performance Coaching Weekends(at Long Valley)" 4/5th June and 23rd/24th July
Couldn't find the info on the BAOC site... but if this is a level 2 course then (from what I know - which ain't much) then it's a mazzive jump from teaching yellow & white orienteering to labelling something as 'performance coaching' - performance coaching includeds getting inside the heads of your atletes, knowing their lifestyles & home situations and a lot more pycological stuff... the level 2 course I did last year seemed to be happy if you could 'put a few markers out in the forest... almost in the correct place'
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Coaching help
I'm pretty sure this course is not a level 2 course. It looks like a course to coach/teach orienteering. The title is rather grand but it looks very good so I will be promoting it to my club.
I wonder if the aspects of coaching you are referring to Gross is something that would be addressed on a level 3 coaching course? But I don't think that's been written yet.
I'm sure the level 2 course would improve my coaching and I will learn lots. The problem I have is really with the insurance. I'll ask this question.
Reaching level 2 will take a total of 8 and a half days training, several years, hundreds of miles of CO2 emmissions and getting on for £1000 cost to various people*. All I want to do is take some beginners to local country parks a few times a year and teach them enough basic orienteering skills so they don't get disillusioned and leave the sport. The rules currently mean I am uninsured unless this happens at an event. Is there another way?
* ie level 1 and level 2 courses combined.
I wonder if the aspects of coaching you are referring to Gross is something that would be addressed on a level 3 coaching course? But I don't think that's been written yet.
I'm sure the level 2 course would improve my coaching and I will learn lots. The problem I have is really with the insurance. I'll ask this question.
Reaching level 2 will take a total of 8 and a half days training, several years, hundreds of miles of CO2 emmissions and getting on for £1000 cost to various people*. All I want to do is take some beginners to local country parks a few times a year and teach them enough basic orienteering skills so they don't get disillusioned and leave the sport. The rules currently mean I am uninsured unless this happens at an event. Is there another way?
* ie level 1 and level 2 courses combined.
- SeanC
- god
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Re: Coaching help
Gross wrote:Couldn't find the info on the BAOC site...
Gross,
Click on the link supplied, then on "events" and scroll down to the date(s)
and the select either the flier or the Application Details.
The latter has a timetable of activities over the 2 day "intermediate" course.
This is not a course for coaches wishing to learn to coach, it is for orienteers who wish
to improve their orienteering.
- MIE
- green
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Re: Coaching help
SeanC,
If you want more help and info with your coaching, have you tried talking to your coaching rep, Don McKerrow? You can find him on the BOF website - go via Officials > Coaches > Coach Support.
Also, if you look at the list of coaching courses, you will see that Colin Dickson BAOC is running a Level 2 course at the end of June.
ChristineV
(SW coaching rep)
If you want more help and info with your coaching, have you tried talking to your coaching rep, Don McKerrow? You can find him on the BOF website - go via Officials > Coaches > Coach Support.
Also, if you look at the list of coaching courses, you will see that Colin Dickson BAOC is running a Level 2 course at the end of June.
ChristineV
(SW coaching rep)
Christine Vince KERNO
- ChristineV
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