Level B proposals for 2011

[seabird]

The provisional list of Level B events (just distributed to Fixtures Secs) show a considerable disparity of view between regions.

Some regions propose only a few; some regions are well into double figures. Indeed there are some individual clubs who have proposed more Level B events than some regions.

A couple of Regions have included urban events, and others have not, but I am aware that already clubs that were prepared to go Level C are now reconsidering on the basis that their Urban events are every bit as good as the ones proposed as Level B

Quite a bit of untangling to be done!

[Homer]

Hopefully things will become clearer once the new Event Guideline A is published (after it has been approved by the next Board meeting).
This will lay out the requirements which Level B events have to meet. Some clubs may then wish to withdraw their requests for events at Level B...

[Red Adder]

My club has just put on an 8 course Cat C event on a brand new area which attracted 290 runners and lots of kind comments from them. [Despite the activies of the local vandals who re-organised the white for us and stole two "sites"]. Being small, we have pretty much decided not to try to put on any Cat B events but concentrate on what we can do and seems to be appreciated by the region's orienteers.

[graeme]

Hopefully things will become clearer...

Hopefully. Up here we're discussing whether a cake stall counts as a trader - this is the determining factor for the majority of our Level B (or maybe C) events.

Luckily nobody gives a stuff and we'll just worry about great courses on great maps

[andypat]

Hopefully things will become clearer...

Hopefully. Up here we're discussing whether a cake stall counts as a trader - this is the determining factor for the majority of our Level B (or maybe C) events.

Luckily nobody gives a stuff and we'll just worry about great courses on great maps

And hopefully we get great courses on great maps too!

I think the main difference between B and C should be the agreement on what contsitutes suitable terrain for each level. Hopefully BOF will ensure that level B events arent held on crap areas. Interesting to see how this works in practice though as one persons great terrain can be another persons stuff of nghtmares. i notice the Scottish champs in 2011 is being held at Auchingarrich - there werent many events that polarised opinions more than SOL 1 there in 2009.

[greywolf]

think the main difference between B and C should be the agreement on what contsitutes suitable terrain for each level. Hopefully BOF will ensure that level B events arent held on crap areas.

not a chance - if there's no will to enforce quality standards (or other rules) on Level 1 events (think of some of the areas used for Midlands Champs and/or CSC Finals) then there's hardly much point setting standards for lower level events...

[entries-sec]

not a chance - if there's no will to enforce quality standards (or other rules) on Level 1 events (think of some of the areas used for Midlands Champs and/or CSC Finals) then there's hardly much point setting standards for lower level events...

This time round, we have a published set of quality standards for each Level of event. (Cue more howls about BOF bureaucracy.) At least we've now got something to base our whinges on ...

Christine

[Big Jon]

Just as long as BOF doesn't try to demand specific scales and contour intervals for all level B events....

[awk]

This time round, we have a published set of quality standards for each Level of event. (Cue more howls about BOF bureaucracy.)

The problem is that these quality standards are simply not going to work. It's a bit like government targets: they can't measure what they really want to achieve, so they find all sorts of things to measure that supposedly lead to that achievement, in the hope that the sum total of hitting the targets is that they achieve the nebulous aim they really want. They usually don't!

So we get all sorts of nonsense like numbers of toilets, embargo times etc. None of these make a quality race. which is created by the quality of the competition, the quality of the area, the quality of the map, and the quality of the courses (plus an even more indefinable sense of atmosphere, and probably the weather too!). We all know when one or more of these are good, but they are almost impossible to measure.

I am more and more convinced that the only way that one can really legislate for different levels, is the importance of the competition, and if they are going to be co-ordinated at national level, then they need to be races of national significance. How that is defined - well I have ideas, but that would need broader discussion. However, what we definitely don't need is a whole mass of Level B races clogging the calendar up,whatever the grade of controller or number of toilets employed.

[EddieH]

Common sense says that in Scotland all SOLs and 6-day events are level B and not much else.

However if certain organisational requirements are made which add nothing to the level of competition some of hese will no doub no be eligible.

If this happens we will end up with some of our naural level B events being level C, whilst a few odd others without the same status being level B.

I hope I am wrong but I cannot see that anything beneficial will come out of the whole 4 level farago.

[greywolf]

Common sense says that in Scotland all SOLs and 6-day events are level B and not much else.

Really? What about the Scottish Relay Champs and the Scottish Sprint Champs? (and someone no doubt will argue for the Scottish Night Champs). The 6-days are a given, but the SOLs are far more variable quality, and seem to be allocated according to club willingness /regional equity / seasonal balance - they certainly don't represent the next 7 best areas or planning.

However IMHO the whole idea of attempting to differentiate events by the sort of quality standards proposed is doomed to failure, particularly when BOF is incapable of sticking to its own rules and enforcing them. It seems no-one's prepared to make judgements on the capacity of the terrain to support a high-quality event, and we only find out on the day if the planner and controller know what they're doing, and compared to these all the rest is secondary...

Instead we'll get certain regions labelling every "badge" event as level B without any regard for quality terrain or planning, which won't advance the sport but will satisfy some nostalgic old folk, which was, of course, the whole point of the 4 level campaign...

[Scott]

Common sense says that in Scotland all SOLs and 6-day events are level B and not much else.

Really? What about the Scottish Relay Champs and the Scottish Sprint Champs? (and someone no doubt will argue for the Scottish Night Champs).

And Edinburgh, which is the only Scottish event I'm planning to travel up from England for next year.

[mharky]

People will go to the 6-days, SOLs, Scottish Champs and Edinburgh Street Race regardless of the classification.

[EddieH]

Mharky wrote "People will go to the 6-days, SOLs, Scottish Champs and Edinburgh Street Race regardless of the classification."

Exactly. Surely it is the status of he event and therefore the anticipated level of competition that counts. Otherwise frankly there could be a Level B event in NE Scotland almost every week and never in East Anglia. That is surely not what we want. (if we are really concerned about it at all )

Just as BOC and the JK are not on the UK's best area every year. Usually they conform to reasonable standards and as has been intimated that is not that well regulated.

And \Greywolf I did say the SOLs the 6 day and [b]not a lot else[/b]. I would hpope that the Scottish sprint champs is one of those.

[graeme]

The 6-days are a given

Are they? Under the old system the 6-days were variously C4 or C3. It's clear that people who claim to understand it regard the new L2 as including the old C2s and some C3s.

Contrariwise, it will be pretty well impossible to specify quality criteria for L1 that the 6-day won't meet.

So historically they should be L3, de jure they'll be L1, de facto probably L2. the only thing for sure is that the issue will be very, very low on any 6-day planning agenda.