Geographically Adjacent Clubs
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Sorry, i didn't mean just the relay thing, it's just that that's been mentioned on nope.
i meant all the other factors that people move for, the funding, encouragement, oportunities etc.
but if lots of the juniors go to one club, then won't we go round in a vicious circle where new juniors go there, and the other clubs end up with virtually no juniors? but thats gonna take a while, and im not sure if it would happen really...
i meant all the other factors that people move for, the funding, encouragement, oportunities etc.
but if lots of the juniors go to one club, then won't we go round in a vicious circle where new juniors go there, and the other clubs end up with virtually no juniors? but thats gonna take a while, and im not sure if it would happen really...
- *Rachel*
- white
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i think some people, or maybe its just trebor, are getting confused by the term 'geographically adjacent clubs' this term was coined to allow two neighbouring clubs to join forces to enter teams in elite relays. quite a separate idea to sarum or whoever recruiting juniors to join their club.
question, if the clubs combining idea was extended to all relay classes what would the effects be? would the sw kids still have flocked to sarum? and are there any clubs which could join together and challenge them?
see another post coming soon about m/w18s running open relays.
question, if the clubs combining idea was extended to all relay classes what would the effects be? would the sw kids still have flocked to sarum? and are there any clubs which could join together and challenge them?
see another post coming soon about m/w18s running open relays.
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rocky - [nope] cartel
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question, if the clubs combining idea was extended to all relay classes what would the effects be? would the sw kids still have flocked to sarum? and are there any clubs which could join together and challenge them?
No they wouldn't, because it's not just about relays, it's about the whole shebang. The only reason Sarum is attracting juniors from other clubs, is because those clubs aren't doing what they should be doing for their juniors.
Personally, I think Sarum should be applauded for getting their act together.
Allowing clubs to join together simply means that clubs are further encouraged to duck out of their responsibilities. If they actually start losing juniors, they might eventually do something about it, particularly if competitions like the Compass Sport Cup are structured to make juniors more important, rather than the most recent dilution down. Allow combinations, and you simply encourage the status quo.
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awk - god
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Another club I see building super-teams is OD. A good example was the CSC qualifier on Cannock Chase - I think 6 of the top 7 on the brown were OD! I know from the names they're not all local to Cov.
I've got mixed opinions. On one hand loads of good orienteers boosting a previously average club (sorry if this offends but as I see it both Sarum and OD used to be run of the mill clubs) is great for that club, but does it kill off clubs in other areas? After all the local clubs to the "travellling" orienteers obviously aren't that big otherwise why join one nearby?
Relays and CS Cup/Trophy aside (3 races for most people) there's no actual day to day need to be in a club so we have to be careful, otherwise they'll be no clubs to organise the races we all need.
Basically if your local club isn't doing enough to have top teams why not do something about it rather than run of and join another?
I've got mixed opinions. On one hand loads of good orienteers boosting a previously average club (sorry if this offends but as I see it both Sarum and OD used to be run of the mill clubs) is great for that club, but does it kill off clubs in other areas? After all the local clubs to the "travellling" orienteers obviously aren't that big otherwise why join one nearby?
Relays and CS Cup/Trophy aside (3 races for most people) there's no actual day to day need to be in a club so we have to be careful, otherwise they'll be no clubs to organise the races we all need.
Basically if your local club isn't doing enough to have top teams why not do something about it rather than run of and join another?
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FatBoy - addict
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Hi this is very interesting for me in particular.
I used to live in Taunton (many moons ago when I started my O career)
I had loads of adjacent clubs including SARUM - really should have joined Quantock as they were the nearset but they were very weak at that point. I actually joined Devon as The Devon Junior Squad under John Searle in the early 80s was very active.
The South West squad was quite strong at this time
Helen Hargreeves, Julian and Andy Simpson, Neil Gard, Dan Duke, Paul Mcgreal, Dom Belza, Fatboy and his brother, Chris and Jon Poole, Tim Lenton, Rupert Gladstone to name a few. We all were in different clubs - Devon. Kerno, Sarum,BOK, NGOC, Wessex, Quantock, etc etc etc. over a huge geographical area.
(there are some blasts from the past)
Paul and I in about 1989 when we were 16/17 tried to form a club called PSYHCO - even had 3 O suits made (Stodgetta still wears one of the tops occasionally) specifically to do relays etc for southwest people - The costs were prohibitive and we did not get that much interest
The reasons we did it are probably the came as now - to be competitive (although there would not have been any senior support) and, well actually, just to get enough people from one club to form a relay team.
Sarum has always had strong junior links - Brian Johnson and Andy Thornton used to run the southwest squad.
I believe SWERVE might have been formed for similar reasons.
I used to live in Taunton (many moons ago when I started my O career)
I had loads of adjacent clubs including SARUM - really should have joined Quantock as they were the nearset but they were very weak at that point. I actually joined Devon as The Devon Junior Squad under John Searle in the early 80s was very active.
The South West squad was quite strong at this time
Helen Hargreeves, Julian and Andy Simpson, Neil Gard, Dan Duke, Paul Mcgreal, Dom Belza, Fatboy and his brother, Chris and Jon Poole, Tim Lenton, Rupert Gladstone to name a few. We all were in different clubs - Devon. Kerno, Sarum,BOK, NGOC, Wessex, Quantock, etc etc etc. over a huge geographical area.
(there are some blasts from the past)
Paul and I in about 1989 when we were 16/17 tried to form a club called PSYHCO - even had 3 O suits made (Stodgetta still wears one of the tops occasionally) specifically to do relays etc for southwest people - The costs were prohibitive and we did not get that much interest
The reasons we did it are probably the came as now - to be competitive (although there would not have been any senior support) and, well actually, just to get enough people from one club to form a relay team.
Sarum has always had strong junior links - Brian Johnson and Andy Thornton used to run the southwest squad.
I believe SWERVE might have been formed for similar reasons.
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stodge - blue
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Relays and CS Cup/Trophy aside (3 races for most people)
I know I'm being a pedant but....a few more if you are a junior: Peter Palmer and Yvette Baker are fairly big competitions on the club calendar.
Basically if your local club isn't doing enough to have top teams why not do something about it rather than run of and join another?
Because as a junior it's very hard to do that, if not impossible. You have to have the support of adults in the club to get anything of substance going. And often it's not about 'top teams' but about 'any teams'!
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awk - god
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question, if the clubs combining idea was extended to all relay classes what would the effects be? would the sw kids still have flocked to sarum? and are there any clubs which could join together and challenge them
i think that the juniors would still flock to sarum. as i said, i wasn't getting much support from BOK, although i dont want to criticise them. they did give me funding for lagganlia! they have a great schools league and get loads of keen juniors into the club, but they never go beyond the schools orienteering. i think my move was actually a bit of an eye-opener to BOK, as since I moved (and there is at least one other junior considering changing) they have started wednesday junior training sessions. these wouldn't have been much good for me as the centre of bristol is too far to go after school, but it's a good start and they are obviously trying to do something about developing juniors now.
kids love sarum for its friendly atmosphere and all the support that you get. juniors are the focus of the club. maybe instead of criticising, other clubs should try to do more and attract juniors like sarum do.
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helen - junior moderator
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Sorry awk I was opening up the update to the adult arena after all the topic doesn't state Juniors only.
I'm right out of the junior scene I'm afraid. The Peter Palmer and Yvette Baker thing weren't around when I was a junior (so that's good progress). JIRC only came in when I was 16. FCC and indeed Elite for non 21's all weren't around. You current juniors should be very grateful for all the stuff that people like awk have been involved in setting up!
I fully concur with the 'no teams' thing being a problem. The one and only time I ran a junior relay at club level was in 1982 (age eight - why does the digit do this: at Star Posts JK ironically with OD before we moved to the Wes Cntree and joined WSX who are a lovely club but unfortunately weren't capable of putting a whole junior team together. Still I understand from my Bruv WSX are actually putting together some half competitve teams now though again I wouldn't know about the juniors. Maybe that's next...
I'm right out of the junior scene I'm afraid. The Peter Palmer and Yvette Baker thing weren't around when I was a junior (so that's good progress). JIRC only came in when I was 16. FCC and indeed Elite for non 21's all weren't around. You current juniors should be very grateful for all the stuff that people like awk have been involved in setting up!
I fully concur with the 'no teams' thing being a problem. The one and only time I ran a junior relay at club level was in 1982 (age eight - why does the digit do this: at Star Posts JK ironically with OD before we moved to the Wes Cntree and joined WSX who are a lovely club but unfortunately weren't capable of putting a whole junior team together. Still I understand from my Bruv WSX are actually putting together some half competitve teams now though again I wouldn't know about the juniors. Maybe that's next...
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FatBoy - addict
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Can't comment specifically on Sarum, but our club has recently lost our nearly all of our competative juniors (three of them) and their dad to a neighbouring club.
For them it was an easy decision - the neighbouring club has started a junior squad, with their own o' colours, and are really promoting the sport locally. Our club doesn't do anything for the juniors, and not much for the adults either. Next AGM could be a humdinger
In my opinion the other club deserves having people joining for the work they are putting in. They also made the Trophy finals by the way.
For them it was an easy decision - the neighbouring club has started a junior squad, with their own o' colours, and are really promoting the sport locally. Our club doesn't do anything for the juniors, and not much for the adults either. Next AGM could be a humdinger
In my opinion the other club deserves having people joining for the work they are putting in. They also made the Trophy finals by the way.
Maybe...
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PorkyFatBoy - diehard
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Awk If that Herefordshire Based family is the Farringtons. Then you are wrong cos when they started O they lived in Worcestershire and I believe HOC is the club for Worcestershire! We now live in Herefordshire and joined WYE as club only members after we moved to Herefordshire
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
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HOCOLITE - addict
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Helen I'm sure if the centre of Bristol is too far then so are any Sarum sessions. The reasons really for juniors changing clubs is social. Where they can get together with friends at events and chat. This last weekend all our juniors congregated at the HOC shop and to some that is more attractive than the O. This also applies to club tents at big events as well. Social is what they're after. That's why they love the PP relays and JIRCS. I don't think YB has the same cred poss because the adults are there too, even if only as transport.
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
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HOCOLITE - addict
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mea culpa! I obviously misunderstood what I was told, or misremembered a conversation a year or two ago. BTW it wasn't a criticism - after all we've done the same thing ourselves (lived in one catchment but been BOF members of another).
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awk - god
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That's why they love the PP relays and JIRCS. I don't think YB has the same cred poss because the adults are there too, even if only as transport.
Obviously weren't in the final then
More seriously, I think that depends on clubs - if you saw the turnout from clubs like Sarum, Aire, NOC, Chasers, or any number of others, I don't think you'd say that. It's had sufficient cred for clubs to get most even all their uni students back for matches, especially (but not only) the final. Even a big PPR gets barely half the turnout the YB final does (from only 10-12 clubs), and many clubs can't bring the teams they turn out in the qualifiers.
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awk - god
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I'm the only competitive junior girls in my club which has vey few juniors, at the moment I am running in womens hort tema rather than another junior relay. A near by club has asked if I would join to have a competitive girls team but I would rather stay where I am because although there are very few juniors I would not change the events I went to because of the geographical area and I can do a bit to help it in junior relays by actually organising a team. The social part of oreinteering is one of the best bits, but the club you belong to does not determine the events you go to and the people you see there.
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