Environmental Issues

[Scott]

There's an email from Peter Brett (the new BOF Environmental Officer) that has been sent round to clubs requesting details of any events or areas where there have been problems with permissions due to environmental issues (particularly ground-nesting birds). I thought I'd repost it on here in case it gets lost in any festive mailboxes.

Details of any such instances should be sent to Peter at environment@britishorienteering.org.uk

A few weeks into the role and I have started to give some thought to what my priorities should be for the next twelve months. I believe that as British Orienteering’s Environment Officer I must be led by the membership towards the areas they believe are the important issues in the debate between orienteering and the conservation of wildlife and historic features.

As a first step I thought it might be an idea if I tried to consolidate many of the ‘Chinese whispers’ I hear as I go to ‘O’ events around the country of problems encountered when seeking event permissions many, but not all, relating to nesting birds. I am particularly interested in refused requests that have been received or influenced by organisations such as Natural England, Countryside Commission for Wales and Scottish Natural Heritage, but I am also interested in cases involving the Forestry Commission and the National Trust.

What I am seeking are details on why an event was refused, the date proposed for the event, the organisation/s involved, the name and role of the person/s dealing with the application and whether any alternatives were offered or face to face meetings held or offered.

Only once I have a comprehensive picture of what’s happening around the country can I start to understand fully what’s happening out there and where the real problems are. Armed with this information I can then challenge those organisations where their action locally is not meeting their national policy.

[Freefall]

I have sent an email to Peter Brett. We have a good relationship with the National Trust and have had regular events at Wallington and Gibside, and work with their Newcastle Inner City project for kids. We have used Cragside in the past, and I had what I thought was a positive meeting with Justine James, their Customer Development Manager. This is the email that came back:

Further to our meeting on Monday 29th March, and discussion with John O’Brien, our General Manager, I would like to respond to your enquiry as follows:

The meeting was very useful and I am now clearer about the nature of orienteering and the implications that this activity would have for Cragside.

I am of the impression that this is a ‘niche’ activity and would not ‘sit’ naturally alongside our core activities. Cragside is a grade 1 registered landscape, where visitors come to enjoy wildlife, peace & tranquillity, gardens & plants, walks and vistas etc. To that end, I am unconvinced that your proposal would provide us with any opportunity to progress our core aims, which are: visitor enjoyment, protecting and presenting beautiful places such as Cragside, and the commercial sustainability that underpins these. I am aware that this will be disappointing for you, and wanted to convey this response, before any further commitment of time and effort was made towards the ‘remapping’ process you have mentioned.

There would, however, be no issue with offering this activity as an event separate to our normal opening arrangements for visitors. With that in mind, you might like to consider Cragside as a venue/site during our closed season – February. The only period to avoid would be the half term holiday. I note, from our meeting, that you would require use of car parks, toilet facilities and warden support with access and risk assessment work. With this in mind, I would like to suggest a flat ‘site’ fee of £500 per half day, and hope that this will suit your objectives. I hope that these few details will help inform your decision whether to continue to consider Cragside as a venue.

So anyone who is a National Trust member, and thinks orienteering is a family friendly type of activity, think again! Not sure how to take this forward, so comment welcome.

[Red Adder]

Difficult.

My club currently has a good relationship with NT over our one site. It is definitely the case that the vast majority of visitors don't stray far from the main attraction whilst the site is 6.25 km2 of parkland and woods so we don't mix too closely with other users.

However this has not always been the case and at one stage it tooks the skills of our most personable member to put on any events there. It seems that often it is the particular views (prejudices even) of one manger that can really effect access. I've noticed similar situations with FC and LA. Its very tempting to think about going above them as often they ignore national guidelines and treat the property as their own private fiefdom.

I suspect though that this might be counter-productive and you really have just go with the flow in the knowledge that in most cases they will probably move on and access will be restored - giving you what almost seems like a new area.

[Mrs H]

What were you proposing? A permanent course? there are plenty of National Trust POCs about to point him towards. Speaking as a NT member I don't know whether I'd be very impressed with loads of strangely clad people blundering around the undergrowth - and even less if I was not a member and had paid a fortune for a day ticket.

his offer of out of season hosting has potential. We had a great little event at NT Dudmaston just before Easter opening and used a farmer's field for parking assembly - although we have often used the NT facilities before now. The cost is steep but there would be some room to manoeuvre surely - plan a POC, provide the maps (with club details on the back) at cost and get them to put the posts in.

I don't think it's a no hoper

[Freefall]

The NT actually mentioned a PC might be a good idea at the meeting (I didn't raise it) so I was hopeful they would look kindly on an event (Sunday mornings are quiet and we can keep away from the main user facility i.e.the House). I will suggest a big reduction in fees as it is largely DIY (I will suggest an admin). I need to check full facts about access to other areas (dealt with by JC - that's the other one) and then decide what is best.

[Mrs H]

Yes that is what i meant - offer to plan a POC on your newly made map in return for substantially reduced access fee for out of season event (as long as they provide and put in the posts) - I think that is a fair state of affairs for everyone. Who knows you might be asked to put on some holiday activity like roger Hargreaves was at Eden - the NT are always doing holiday specials - and then you have more leverage for more in season usage

[HOCOLITE]

The ranger at Brockhampton was interested because he does schools activities and thought O might offer variety. They've been very accomodating to us. Even opened Cafe and provided hot drinks. But a rural NT with separate walking parking to house. Not likely yo get the visitor numbers that Cragside get.

What about summer evening events

[frog]

I've told him about our capercaillie at Dalguise. Don't see there's much he can do though.

[EddieH]

It's desperately sad. The term "Environmental issue" in this case does not appear to be synonomous with "green". As I understand it the issue is that the visiting public are not disturbed When the JK went to Longleat did that upset the visitors?

[Red Adder]

With the current relatively high interest of politicos in sports, with the forthcoming Olympics, worries about all the chubsters costing thhe NHS a fortune and children not allowed out because of daemon paedos lurking around every corner, that the line of supporting the nation's fitness and confidence level, especially in the young, is always a good line to play.

[Freefall]

Thanks for the feedback - I have put some of these points to the National Trust rep at Cragside, including their own guidelines from their website!

[Jon Brooke]

You might also want to find out how many of your club members are also NT members.

[RanaldMacdonald]

We have a good number of NT areas on which we orienteer and, on the whole, relations are very good. A frequent issue is whether we pay car parking fees ...

I had a meeting today with the key person at Longshaw Estate about the CSC/T final next year. A few years ago there was real concern about our regional event - "can you keep it to 150 competitors?" Today, having experienced our National in 2007 there is far less concern. They understand that the apparently large number of courses actually spreads the load on the area. We had a very positive discussion about potential parking areas and where to park 8-10 coaches.

Again, a couple of years ago the new Land Manager questioned why we had left a blank strip on the map. "It's an SSSI". "Thats' not a problem for you to run through" as those who did the leg across Padley Gorge in flood will remember.

The National Trust website - http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w- ... eering.htm - has the following:

"Orienteering is considered an appropriate activity on National Trust land. Orienteers are generally responsible and their activity is well managed and there are few problems as a consequence."

... and most, but not all, local contacts work within the spirit of this guideline, even if the fees we are asked to pay don't always seem reflect it. At Longshaw we have done a trade off - a POC in lieu of fees.

Which is not to say that we don't encounter mavericks within all organisations.

[ryeland of doom]

Sometimes you get someone on the ground who has a problem with the sport. For years, the local Forestry Commission manager would not sanction sport in his patch, and Bringewood/Haye Park, Herefordshire (Midland Championships 1969) was lost to orienteering from 1976 until 1992. Once the staff had changed the forest was used again (By WYE) and is now home to a POC. This was a very good forest in the 1970s, but Mr Chainsaw had downgraded it as an O venue by the time it reopened, and even more so since. Trees have grown back and it is worth another look now.

It may just be a case of a long wait for new staff who are more sympathetic turning up.

[frog]

Peter Brett has been negotiating with the TAY FC biodiversity guy about the capercaillie in Dalguise, trying to get a segment of the map sectioned off rather than a blanket ban.