I've noticed a few comments about this, where people are joining clubs which cover areas near to, but not including where they live. The main example is the juniors joining SARUM.
I jsut wondered what everyone else thought about this. Is it right? Do juniors joining SARUM mean junior relays turn into obvious results for the JIRC relays? Is orienteering really a big enough sport for people to make tactical changes to which clubs they are in?
Discuss....
Geographically Adjacent Clubs
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it depends on the main reasons for changing, for instance - I think for juniors it would be better to join a club with a large number of juniors if the other club they could join didn't have any although on the flipside it might put newcoming juniors off orienteering to find there's no one their own age in a club.
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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it doesn't have anything to do with JIRC's does it? they're still the same region! but they do dominate a bit at british/JK relays. But if you were in 1 of their positions (e.g. ruth holmes), and they don't ever have a competitive relay team to run in, you'd probably join the adjacent club! i would!
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Jess - green
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i think it was a good move for the whole of the SW to join SARUM. it gives them a chance to have a good team.... but really if you look at it in the long run, it doesnt matter who you run for. Heather Monro is SLOW... cracks me up every time that one
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mharky - team nopesport
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Obviously the ideal would be that everybody could run for their local club, but far too many clubs don't actually do anything to really get junior orienteering going. When a club does, it deserves to attract juniors.
I'd rather see this than artificial 'regional' clubs or squad groups competing.
Where I would be worried is when a club works hard to develop junior-O and yet the better ones disappear off to run for another club.
If Sarum are dominating the relays, it's up to other clubs to do something about it (actually, whilst they might be strong on the women's front, I don't think they dominate in the men's classes by a long chalk). There are plenty that could build good squads around their current juniors if they tried.
The real challenge for Sarum will be the sustainabilityl. Plenty of clubs have been strong for a few years, few have managed for any length of time. I'm sure they are up to it, but it'll still be interesting to see.
I'd rather see this than artificial 'regional' clubs or squad groups competing.
Where I would be worried is when a club works hard to develop junior-O and yet the better ones disappear off to run for another club.
If Sarum are dominating the relays, it's up to other clubs to do something about it (actually, whilst they might be strong on the women's front, I don't think they dominate in the men's classes by a long chalk). There are plenty that could build good squads around their current juniors if they tried.
The real challenge for Sarum will be the sustainabilityl. Plenty of clubs have been strong for a few years, few have managed for any length of time. I'm sure they are up to it, but it'll still be interesting to see.
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awk - god
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I am a senior who joined the "next door" club - I don't think anyone would be fighting for me to compete for them though!
The main thing is that the club I have joined runs more Saturday events (which matters to me) and in areas that are easier for me to get to than the club whose area I live in. In the South-East some clubs' areas are long and thin, with many events a long way from parts of the area and the nearer to the M25 you go, the slower and less enjoyable the travel is.
The main thing is that the club I have joined runs more Saturday events (which matters to me) and in areas that are easier for me to get to than the club whose area I live in. In the South-East some clubs' areas are long and thin, with many events a long way from parts of the area and the nearer to the M25 you go, the slower and less enjoyable the travel is.
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chrisecurtis - red
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i'm against it because it means that the new sarum kids who live in the region can't get a relay run competitvely - also all the sarum teams win all the relays so it can put other children off
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rob f - yellow
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It can also have exactly the opposite effect Trebor, It gives the new kids something to aspire to, (a sucessful "A" team) insted of beeing in a region which continually gets beaten. Although I never while made it into the top few juniors of my junor squad I always had something to aim for "thats why im here, to try and be in that team" rather then, "oh well we got humped again". It does a lot for inspiration, having competition within your own squad/club can only be a good thing.
Last edited by Iain on Sun May 09, 2004 5:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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I'm with awk on this one. We don't live in a perfect world so people should have the chance to run competitively if thats what they want.
I wonder if these juniors had a say in which club their parents joined, maybe not , they might not have been borne at that time. so why should they have to stick to that club. Also you should be able to join the club whose events most suite you.
I wonder if these juniors had a say in which club their parents joined, maybe not , they might not have been borne at that time. so why should they have to stick to that club. Also you should be able to join the club whose events most suite you.
- Steler
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Being in a club shouldn't just be about getting a competitive relay team, there are other factors that should be more important for a junior, what do they do in the way of coaching, club training, lifts to events? will they give me a grant to go to sweden in the summer and train?
i have always been in NOC and I am lucky it is my local club (well i live in Stockholm right now but it was..) and it has always supported me, sometimes financially. there have been a lot of times when i haven't had a really competitive relay team but you get round this by getting a lot of experience running first leg of the open class (women's in my case) for years and years and waiting for the younger juniors to get a bit older, or until you can get a good local university student to join and then you get a good team. to be honest i think all decent juniors from at least w/m18 up should be running the open class in domestic relays anyway. the junior classes aren't competitive enough and junior courses seem to be getting shorter and shorter.
i have always been in NOC and I am lucky it is my local club (well i live in Stockholm right now but it was..) and it has always supported me, sometimes financially. there have been a lot of times when i haven't had a really competitive relay team but you get round this by getting a lot of experience running first leg of the open class (women's in my case) for years and years and waiting for the younger juniors to get a bit older, or until you can get a good local university student to join and then you get a good team. to be honest i think all decent juniors from at least w/m18 up should be running the open class in domestic relays anyway. the junior classes aren't competitive enough and junior courses seem to be getting shorter and shorter.
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harry - addict
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Trebor:
But they don't
Trebor:
The more juniors you have in a club, the more chance you have of a competitive run.
Melons:
Whilst I agree with most of what you say in your post, I have to part company here! For starters, seniors relays wouldn't be appropriate for all M/W18s. One of the reasons junior relays are sometimes less competitive is because of the departure of the top 18s to senior relays. I've known that then leave other 16s/18s in the club without a competitive team, fine for the individual, not so great for the rest of their potential team. No such problem at PPRs, JIRCs and the like. There's no harm in short courses - in fact I believe there is far too much emphasis on length in British orienteering. It's just as much about speed, and shorter courses punish mistakes far more rigorously.
Of course, the ideal would be for the 18s to be able to run both.
also all the sarum teams win all the relays so it can put other children off
But they don't
Trebor:
i'm against it because it means that the new sarum kids who live in the region can't get a relay run competitvely
The more juniors you have in a club, the more chance you have of a competitive run.
Melons:
to be honest i think all juniors from at least w/m18 up should be running the open class in domestic relays anyway. the junior classes aren't competitive enough and junior courses seem to be getting shorter and shorter.
Whilst I agree with most of what you say in your post, I have to part company here! For starters, seniors relays wouldn't be appropriate for all M/W18s. One of the reasons junior relays are sometimes less competitive is because of the departure of the top 18s to senior relays. I've known that then leave other 16s/18s in the club without a competitive team, fine for the individual, not so great for the rest of their potential team. No such problem at PPRs, JIRCs and the like. There's no harm in short courses - in fact I believe there is far too much emphasis on length in British orienteering. It's just as much about speed, and shorter courses punish mistakes far more rigorously.
Of course, the ideal would be for the 18s to be able to run both.
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awk - god
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Being in a club shouldn't just be about getting a competitive relay team, there are other factors that should be more important for a junior, what do they do in the way of coaching, club training, lifts to events? will they give me a grant to go to sweden in the summer and train?
thats the reason for me moving. its not just the relays. that was only a small part. the club is so junior friendly and care about how you've done. i just didn't get any recognition in BOK.
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helen - junior moderator
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i see why, because although a lot of Bok is freindly, bar the daniels there isn't much youth - but i remind you that if this geo adj clubs then in theory Chasers, OD and SWOC are adjacent top us and we could have all of them - there has to be a limit somewhere
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rob f - yellow
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but i remind you that if this geo adj clubs then in theory Chasers, OD and SWOC are adjacent top us and we could have all of them - there has to be a limit somewhere
Not really, anybody is entitled to join whatever club they want (as long as that club will have them), and there's a long and honourable record of this happening in all sports, not just orienteering. After all, I remember one Herefordshire based family deciding not to run for their local club, but joining one further afield, because the former couldn't get junior teams together
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awk - god
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New Club Called SUPER JUNIORS - Any one can join
seriously are you talking about us awk, cause we lived in worcestershire first so that's different
seriously are you talking about us awk, cause we lived in worcestershire first so that's different
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rob f - yellow
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