Results and Rankings.

[Spookster]

I don't know why he's non-comp, maybe due to embargo issues?

Simple, Marcus declared himself non-comp when he entered.

I am suspecting the JOK chasing sprint doesnt due to the alternate format

You are correct, it won't count due to its format. From the relevant BOF Rules Appendix: Night events, Relay, Score, Chasing Start and other mass start events may
give anomalous results and are excluded from the Rankings scheme.

Another point to note: Final results must be submitted electronically to the results page in the British Orienteering web site within 7 days of the event. Results not uploaded within this period shall be excluded from Rankings calculations.

Results can be re-submitted for the same event, but at least try to get the first set submitted quickly!

[NeilC]

I am suspecting the JOK chasing sprint doesnt due to the alternate format

You are correct, it won't count due to its format. From the relevant BOF Rules Appendix: Night events, Relay, Score, Chasing Start and other mass start events may
give anomalous results and are excluded from the Rankings scheme.

Presumably the prologue could be ranked though as competitors started at minute intervals there.

[andy]

Another point to note: Final results must be submitted electronically to the results page in the British Orienteering web site within 7 days of the event. Results not uploaded within this period shall be excluded from Rankings calculations.

So... If, as ESOC results person, I'm unavailable (i.e. on holiday) when there's a ranking event on and miss the 7 day deadline, everyone who ran the event 'misses out' on getting ranking points!? The runner shouldn't lose out in this scenario. Ok, so that's an extreme example and if it were to be the case I'd make sure someone was able to do it in time (or ask BO for an extension), but you get the point. I'm assuming I'm the only person who can upload results for ESOC events and I don't like the idea of giving out my login for the BO site, so it's a bit of a sticky situation should it arise.

I have seen events where clubs have struggled with submitting ranking results in a timely manner, if at all (hell I missed the 6 month deadline to fix some rankings for Spey 07 and they probably weren't up within 7 days either, but it was a pain to use the old system). Is it now a requirement for certain levels (no idea what levels are what really, I just go orienteering ) of event to submit these ranking results within the 7 day period? I can't see this in any of the documentation about uploading files and in a brief scan of the event guidelines, so if it's there I missed it.

[Scott]

Presumably the prologue could be ranked though as competitors started at minute intervals there.

The review group discussed this. I think we concluded that the prologue of a chasing sprint (registered at the appropriate level) could be ranked if the organisers want it to.

[Spookster]

I'm assuming I'm the only person who can upload results for ESOC events

No. You can have 2 Club Results Secretaries per club (or probably more if you need, e.g. Maroc, where it is the Organiser's role to deal with results).

Is it now a requirement for certain levels (no idea what levels are what really, I just go orienteering ) of event to submit these ranking results within the 7 day period?

Yes. Ranking Events are Levels 1 & 2, but there are some exclusions.

I can't see this in any of the documentation about uploading files and in a brief scan of the event guidelines, so if it's there I missed it.

You missed it. Appendix K - The Ranking Scheme.

[King Penguin]

Suspect Marcus declared himself non-comp due to still being in recovery mode following last year's accident.

[EddieH]

I have to agree with Andy regarding late uploading. BOF are presumably trying to incentivise action with a stick. However the people they are going to beat are those punters that do particularly well - how on earth can that be right?

It makes a bit of a mockery of the ranking list if people can plan to go to a ranking event and then through no fault of theirs theie whole effort is voided.

This could be particularly relevant in Scotland where it seems there will be very few ranking events.

[andy]

Final results must be submitted electronically to the results page in the British Orienteering web site within 7 days of the event. Results not uploaded within this period shall be excluded from Rankings calculations.

In the document Spookster linked above, the quoted text is bold which means it is mandatory. It's also contradictory, if the first sentence is mandatory then the 2nd is not required.

I'm (still) intruiged as to what would happen if results are not uploaded within the 7 days, the competitor should not lose out on ranking points if the organising club hasn't dealt with it, that's (in my opinion) crazy.

[RJ]

And if the computer was trashed on the way home from the event........

[DJM]

Those organisers who regard race results as the key outcome of the event don't seem to have much problem!

When I think back to the days pre electronic-punching when my club had the policy that results had to be printed and in the post within 24 hours, getting them up online is, by comparison, a doddle.

What we had to do was:-

• Check the pin punch marks on every control card to see that runners had completed courses correctly
• Enter manually the finish times of every competitor into a program written by a club member (Mr Chips?) (no spreadsheets available then)
• Sort all times in ascending order for each course
• Add officials’ comments
• Compose a results booklet from the data above
• Print out one copy of the results booklet
• Photocopy several hundred (sometimes up to a thousand) results booklets
• Collate, staple and fold each booklet
• Stuff SAEs with booklets
• Post them
• Go to bed!

On many occasions, we managed to get to a late night sorting office at about 1 am on the Monday morning after the Sunday event so that many competitors received the results in that Monday’s delivery.

I humbly suggest that allowing 7 days for someone to press a button and upload results (and let the BOF system calculate rankings points) is a tad generous ... undue delay sends the message that uploading results is not a high priority whereas I believe that, once the last competitor is in, letting competitors know the results of the race is top priority!! After all, in what other sport do competitors sometimes not know the results until several days later?

Of course, this assumes that results are in the right file format, so some pre-event preparation might be necessary.

[Spookster]

Perhaps the ESOC Level 2 Ranking Event (SOL6) on September 26th should include within its event advertising:

"Warning to EddieH and any others of you thinking of running well - the results may not be posted within 7 days due to officials' holidays or trashed computers - you may not get your ranking points".

[andy]

Perhaps the ESOC Level 2 Ranking Event (SOL6) on September 26th should include within its event advertising:

"Warning to EddieH and any others of you thinking of running well - the results may not be posted within 7 days due to officials' holidays or trashed computers - you may not get your ranking points".

It's ok, I'm not on holiday and am indeed doing the timing for that event!

I generally (though not always) try to send a backup of the event on a memory stick in another car (usually driven by a certain SIman) in case of problems... Will def do so now for level 1/2 events, people need their ranking points!

[andy]

After all, in what other sport do competitors sometimes not know the results until several days later?

Adventure racing! I've paid 10 times the amount of an orienteering race to enter a professionally run adventure race before, and not got any results until the wed/thurs after the event.

I'm not complaining about the process by the way, I love the look of the new system (won't be using it for a ranking event until september though!) and I really hope it ends up being a complete list of L1/2 events for completeness sake. I just have a niggling feeling that some clubs will struggle (don't have any names in my head, just a feeling) to get them up within 7 days and it'll be interesting to see how british orienteering deals with it.

[EddieH]

I once wrote the software for the now defunct Central Electricity Generating Board for them to pay their contractors. They were utterly insistent that any contractor that tokk more than a certain time to register their hours would not get paid. I pointed out that if this turned out to be wrong there would be some substantial cost in changing it later but they were insistent.

Needless to say there were plenty of valid reasons why contractors were not in time - what a headache

[NeilC]

(I don't know why he's non-comp, maybe due to embargo issues?)

So at what point should a runner consider themselves n/c? Graeme himself is listed as a mapper for the Edinburgh urban race but was still allowed to run competitively (and gain ranking points). The outcome of both the urban race and chasing sprint were almost certainly determined by natural ability but one wonders whether local knowledge ended up inflating the ranking points of those with this knowledge and deflating those without. The effect is probably very small, and unquantifyable, but what are people's perceptions?