JWOC selection
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spot on nixon, JWOC is a world champs, and if you go there planning to gain experience it a waste of time. you go there for results, and that is it. As for experience though, yes of course you gain experience when there and this will help heaps for future international races, but shouldnt be the reason that you go. people say the more jwocs you go to the better you will go in the last one, this is a load of jobby. i know people that have won golds on first attempts in the last year of 20s and others who have been really talented, been to 4 and got pretty much the same results everytime. the best runners should go, simple as that. whatever their age or experience
Go orienteering in Great Britain......... its financially better off than Australia:)
- BJesus
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anyone care to put a map in the gallery so we can (try to) understand what all the pallava is about?
i ran (tried to) on a nice contour only map of roseisle on sunday. I thought the map was good. my concentration wasnt. either were my legs.
i ran (tried to) on a nice contour only map of roseisle on sunday. I thought the map was good. my concentration wasnt. either were my legs.
“Success is 99% failure� -- Soichiro Honda
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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Graeme wrote:First point - you should know before you start that "close enough to the top" means "in the top three, excluding Jamie", or even "in the top two, excluding Jamie and Jon, or third if you beat Jon by more than three minutes".
Graeme
what about dan?
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bendover - addict
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I think BJ is right, i read the first line of AWKs reply and stopped.
I think you also misunderstood what I said. I wasn't advocating that people should be selected 'for experience', I said that it was part of the learning experience, and coping with the ups and downs of a selection race process is part of that experience.
I think having pre-selected runner would be a good idea, it means they can concentrate more on the competition rather than will they be in the team.
Fine, but that's only done for athletes who stand head and shoulders and have the form, and you've got to have reasonably recent form to justify that, especially for juniors. And as you can see from the posts already, there is no uniform agreement where that cut off should be.
You have to have a selection race in the process to ensure all athletes have actually raced against each other at a race/races that they have worked towards.
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awk - god
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marknixon wrote:You should never pick solely on the selection races, thats just a stupid idea. If you do that they come nearly as important as JWOC, people shouldnt have to tapper for FCC final, it should just be used to confrim who is in the team. use all known form´and the test races, Before the FCC final I had in my mind a team of who ould go in the boys, it was 8 people, 4 of whom i wold have picked regardless, so maybe the test race could have been used to see who out of the others is on best form... which isnt great because we are sstill 2 months away and one could have peaked for that whilst another is peaking for July. All known form isnt that unfair at junior level in britain, how many people were really in the running for selection, not many. 'You' know who is going to be on form on the dat, take them.
So what you're saying Mark is you'll pick the team and then if there's any places left you'll probably give them to whoever does ok in the selection races. Back to square one?
Peaking is an intresting subject though. My current peaking is actually doing some training for a race but I did used to do that sort of stuff for all the good it did. What you are implying though is that if you're a cert for a JWOC place (as you would be if it's based on recent form) then you'll peak for JWOC else you'll peak for the selection race? Surely that means that only those who a certs will be in the best condition for JWOC? I think maybe you're taking the whole peaking thing a bit far?
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FatBoy - addict
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FatBoy wrote: Peaking is an intresting subject though...
Surely that means that only those who a certs will be in the best condition for JWOC? I think maybe you're taking the whole peaking thing a bit far?
How the [nope] do you know when you're going to peak? You could be in the shape of your life physically, but that's not guaranteeing you'll have a fantastic run on the day - it only takes one slight lapse on concentration, especially on the decent areas they should use for a JWOC, and you've blown it.
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distracted - addict
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Peaking is about being prepared mentally aswell as physically. I've never worried about it myself, not being elite but having a dad who's run more marathon's than I can remember teaches you a lot about it. In the previous few where he was aiming at under three hours he'd done enough physical training and could have managed it but just went over. Last year he managed and you could tell before that he was going to, it was a different frame of mind, a complete focusedness. Coming back to the discussion about elites needing to be arrogant, they know they're going to achieve their goal rather than just thinking it would be nice to achieve it. Not sure how much of a factor mental preparation is in orienteering but I guess is greater than running as there is far more mental work involved.
I personally think if you're going to have selection races then you need to go off the result's, there is a case for pre selection but as noted the boundary is a bit of a grey area
I personally think if you're going to have selection races then you need to go off the result's, there is a case for pre selection but as noted the boundary is a bit of a grey area
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cj - yellow
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the mental/psychological aspect of orienteering is one of its great attractions to me as a sport. you really have to get to know yourself as a person, work out what makes you tick and what settles you for a big race. routine, concentration - speak to any top elite orienteer and they'll have a few ridiculous little things that they do religiously before a race. i remember ed nash used to eat jelly before a big race. i'd see him wandering around eating sqaures of the stuff. for some reason it used to totally psyche me out... i'd see him eating jelly and then i'd be thinking 'oh no, he's eating jelly and getting loads of energy, i'll never keep up with him'. then because I had that psychology in my head, if i did see ed I wouldn't keep up with him. I countered this by working out that the best thing for me before an important race was to not really see or speak to anyone in the assembly area before competing. I'd just stick my headphones on. listen to some house music and get 'pysched'! my coach would go and find out any important info for me.
going off the point a bit anyway as most of these threads do, but in terms of peaking, physically as long as you are organised and sensible with your training and avoid illness/freak injuries then its well achievable - but for younger athletes perhaps the psychological side of peaking takes some years to achieve consistently; therefore i guess to a certain extent those who do well at the selection races have proved that they an peak psychologically and have the right composure to be in a championships team. One of the 'best' athletes may not even need to be at their peak physically to do well in these selection races, but only needs to be psychologically sound in the knowledge that they are fit enough to get round the test races in good speed, therefore taking the pressure of themselves in their heads.... if you get what i mean!! i think i just made a short story long!
going off the point a bit anyway as most of these threads do, but in terms of peaking, physically as long as you are organised and sensible with your training and avoid illness/freak injuries then its well achievable - but for younger athletes perhaps the psychological side of peaking takes some years to achieve consistently; therefore i guess to a certain extent those who do well at the selection races have proved that they an peak psychologically and have the right composure to be in a championships team. One of the 'best' athletes may not even need to be at their peak physically to do well in these selection races, but only needs to be psychologically sound in the knowledge that they are fit enough to get round the test races in good speed, therefore taking the pressure of themselves in their heads.... if you get what i mean!! i think i just made a short story long!
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bendover - addict
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cj wrote:Peaking is about being prepared mentally aswell as physically.
Indeed.
Three hours in the car out of the rain reading Noddy stories to keep the kids happy usually does it for me
and you can always warm up on the way to number 1
Graeme
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graeme - god
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reading bendover's post about how people prepare for races reminded me of our jwoc selection weekend in 2001. there was i happily minding my own business near the start, when i suddenly hear these almighty crashes - it's speakey attempting to tear trees down, picking up logs and throwing them around. personally i wouldn't dream of this, but it did the trick for him, he got in jwoc, i didn't. maybe i should take some of his lumberjack techniques and work on them...
as for peaking for specific races, i recall my brother telling me about seb coe, who said that he could win the olympics with 6 weeks training (i'm assuming he was training prior to that, but 6 weeks was all it took for tapering). with this in mind, why are the JWOC selection so far away from JWOC? i believe WOC selection are done within a few weeks of the championships (correct me if i'm wrong), so why can't this be done for the juniors? The British Elites would make a prime opportunity (or do people still have exams then?)
as for peaking for specific races, i recall my brother telling me about seb coe, who said that he could win the olympics with 6 weeks training (i'm assuming he was training prior to that, but 6 weeks was all it took for tapering). with this in mind, why are the JWOC selection so far away from JWOC? i believe WOC selection are done within a few weeks of the championships (correct me if i'm wrong), so why can't this be done for the juniors? The British Elites would make a prime opportunity (or do people still have exams then?)
The reward of a thing well done is to have done it.
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Supersaint - team nopesport
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Its very much a personal thing:
JWOC selction races in 95 (maybe even '94). Day 1: a very quiet and focused Bertie Goffe at the start, something I'd never seen him do before - he had a nightmare. Day 2: a normal BG joking around and having a laugh - flying run.
Chris
JWOC selction races in 95 (maybe even '94). Day 1: a very quiet and focused Bertie Goffe at the start, something I'd never seen him do before - he had a nightmare. Day 2: a normal BG joking around and having a laugh - flying run.
Chris
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Lil' God'rs - orange
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The main reason why JWOC selection is not closer to JWOC is that the majority of people have exams in the month before. Personally I have exams until the 29th of June which is 3 days before we travel to JWOC.
I can see the advantages of holding the races later as you get a team which is inform, but I think it is only justifiable in Scandinavia as only they have enough strength in depth.
I can see the advantages of holding the races later as you get a team which is inform, but I think it is only justifiable in Scandinavia as only they have enough strength in depth.
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David - white
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Lil' God'rs wrote:Its very much a personal thing:
JWOC selction races in 95 (maybe even '94). Day 1: a very quiet and focused Bertie Goffe at the start, something I'd never seen him do before - he had a nightmare. Day 2: a normal BG joking around and having a laugh - flying run.
Go with that. I spent my entire teens getting psyched for big races only to stuff em up. Only took me until I got old and fat to work out I need to be perfectly calm before I start otherwise mistake city. JK Day 1 this year for example - go off like a bear with a sore head literally after banging my head on the stupid start clock hung at 6' and mess up 3 of the first 4.
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FatBoy - addict
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