4 Levels

[Sunlit Forres]

[/quote]

Come on! It just makes sense to have a basic, upper-framework to begin with. Level 2 is regional, and level 3 is District, Level 4 is club. Within that you can have all the branding you want.

You'll be glad to know that at least one other person agrees with you RJ.

I don't have a problem with branding though. Most running clubs do it, some (eg The Forres 10K) with great imagination. For example, our Moray Mix weekend (which was level 3 and no more) attracted 3 times our normal turnout because we advertised what it contained. Since then loads of folk have been asking when the next Moray Mix is going to be.

I'm actually not that bothered what grading scheme emerges from the BOF AGM. I just want everyone to get behind it and try to make it work. Within a couple of years we'll hopefully all have got used to it and will have a chance of decoding it for beginners.

[greywolf]

a high quality colour coded event in Culbin...

...should be registered at L2. Last year that was problematic because of the default L3 registration, the apparent BOF requirement for a grade 2 controller and a 12 month embargo, and because the MOR committee thought it would be added hassle. This year BOF have relented on their silliness...but to compensate it appears that SOA are going to disincentivise L2 registration by means of a poll tax

The SOL branding is a excellent way to add value (and turnout) to certain Scottish L2 events (and those i've been to have all been good) but no-one could seriously pretend that these are always the 7 best events/areas used in any given year - instead they are selected to give a good geographical and seasonal spread...perhaps SOA need to rethink their blanket L2 levy and apply it only to SOLs as part of the licensing of that brand?

[awk]

I don't have a problem with branding though. Most running clubs do it, some (eg The Forres 10K) with great imagination.

Perhaps because they don't have a graded system of events nationally (at least not one seen by the participant)?

[Sunlit Forres]

We digress a bit Awk, but as you ask, BARR (British Assoc of Road Races) do have a set of standards. An extract from their web site reads:

"They were faced with issues involving road safety, policing, marshalling etc which. Hitherto, had not been a feature of either track or cross-country events. There were no rules of governance. No recommended standards or any organisation to which those putting on the events could turn to for advice.
The founding committee quickly drew up a set of standards to which all BARR member races had to conform. BARR then pioneered a system of race grading by which they could encourage race directors to develop their events to even higher standards, Thus events were to be graded not upon size, but upon the quality of their race provision and organisation."

For example, to be called a 10K, a route has to be accurately measured to certain standards. I think there are gold, silver and bronze BARR standards that can be awarded based on various criteria . I'm not an expert on all this, as I quickly lost interest in road races when I discovered orienteering. No doubt there are others out there who can add to this.

[roadrunner]

We digress a bit Awk, but as you ask, BARR (British Assoc of Road Races) do have a set of standards. An extract from their web site reads:

"They were faced with issues involving road safety, policing, marshalling etc which. Hitherto, had not been a feature of either track or cross-country events. There were no rules of governance. No recommended standards or any organisation to which those putting on the events could turn to for advice.
The founding committee quickly drew up a set of standards to which all BARR member races had to conform. BARR then pioneered a system of race grading by which they could encourage race directors to develop their events to even higher standards, Thus events were to be graded not upon size, but upon the quality of their race provision and organisation."

For example, to be called a 10K, a route has to be accurately measured to certain standards. I think there are gold, silver and bronze BARR standards that can be awarded based on various criteria . I'm not an expert on all this, as I quickly lost interest in road races when I discovered orienteering. No doubt there are others out there who can add to this.

Somewhat off-topic, but yes, you're right. The grading is a self-assessment checklist, but BARR do random checks to make sure the assessments are correct. Races will generally advertise their standard, though I don't know how much it influences people's decision whether or not to enter.

[awk]

Interesting, and thanks for the info. Must admit, have never noticed it. Makes me wonder if newcomers to orienteering would take much notice beyond the club's blurb.

[pete.owens]

Come on! It just makes sense to have a basic, upper-framework to begin with. Level 2 is regional, and level 3 is District, Level 4 is club. Within that you can have all the branding you want. Level 2 events are special and attract competitors from a wider audience. Everything else has an almost totally 'local' set of competitors.

In what specific way does it "just make sense"?
I know who the local club is.
I know who the local region is.
but what is this "District"?
What do you consider are the significant features that a competitor would want to see at a "District" event that would be unnescessary at a local event?
and what additional significant features would a regional event need?

Level 2 events are special and attract competitors from a wider audience. Everything else has an almost totally 'local' set of competitors

So why the need to subdivide this - 'everything else aimed at a totally local set of competitors'? and certainly why the need for BOF to step in and tell clubs how they should subcategorise their local events.

[Red Adder]

"This is a local orienteering event, for local people"

[andypat]

Is it not the label thats the issue rather than the 4 levels?

If you substitute Club for District (at Level 3) and call these something standard. Level 4 would be available for ATI events, training events and anything else a club wanted to put on on an ad hoc basis with much more flexibility over format - for example a lot of the informal events our club puts on in the evenings dont have a controller as such and are on a completely different level to the occasional colour coded events we put on at the weekend..

[Gross]

ATI events, ..

What's an ATI event?

[SJC]

a high quality colour coded event in Culbin should be registered at L2.

Which is the same level as the Scottish Championships !

It is applying old names to new levels that appears to cause the problem (who on earth invented the term "District" in the forst place ? It has no place in orienteering).
If you could throw them away and start again then you would probably end up with something that looked like:

Level 4 - Club
Level 3 - Regional
Level 2 - National
Level 1 - Championships

as this better represents the target audience.

[greywolf]

Which is the same level as the Scottish Championships !

No it isn't. Look at the fixtures list. This year's Scottish Champs and next year's are both L1 and IIRC last years was as well. The event guidelines do allow SOA to register the national champs as L2 if they want, but can't see why they would.

[SeanC]

Let look at how we might classify events in the South East into 4 tiers.

South East Regional event - old style badge event, aimed at all clubs in the SE - definately regional, level 3.

Old style district colour coded event - sometimes two on one day in the SE and aimed at perhaps half the region (say 5 clubs) as many will not cross London for a district event in a mediocre area. Somewhere between regional and club level, so lets call that level 3.25.

Southdowns galloppen event (SOG). Aimed at just southdowns so definately level 4 (club).

Kent Orienteering League (KOL) event. Very similar to southdowns gallopen events but aimed at two smaller clubs (SAXONS and DFOK). Ok, it has to be level 4, but we can't use "club" as classification as this would deter members from either club from going to each other's events.

Frolics summer series. Local events around london aimed at the London clubs (two thirds of the region). Fewer courses than KOL's and SOG's, so more informal? But definately sub regional. Level 3.67? Level 4.2?

DFOK Bexley newcomers series. 4 Park events just targeting a small part of the DFOK area in South East London, and any members who live nearby. Level 4.6?

Adding another level superficially seems attractive, but the likely outcome is clubs, the various BOF committees and BOF officers spending much of the year on a classification exercise rather than developing the sport. This seems of little value as a well defined brand seems the best way to describe a level below regional. Time to move on IMHO.

[Spookster]

If you could throw them away and start again then you would probably end up with something that looked like:

Level 4 - Club
Level 3 - Regional
Level 2 - National
Level 1 - Championships

But that mixes types of event with types of competition. I think it's something like this:

Level 3 - Club events
Level 2 - Regional events
Level 1 - National events

At any of those event types, you can hold a championship competition, so:
Level 3 - Club champs, local league, etc.
Level 2 - Regional Champs, Scottish League, etc.
Level 1 - National Champs(BOC), Northern Champs, etc.

[SJC]

This year's Scottish Champs and next year's are both L1

I stand corrected.
Although the Scottish Relays Championships are only registered as Level 2, which seems a bit of a contradiction.

But that mixes types of event with types of competition.

So where do events like Lakeland 5 Day, the Harvester, the London City race, etc. fit in ? These are clearly aimed at a national audience.