I agree with Dave on this one - how are you supposed to be up for a long relay race when you've done two hard races on preceeding days. At JK I went for Men's short and on Monday I went for option c) - stay at home and finally get the last of the Simonside mud out of the car.
Less classes would be good too.
british relays
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When relays are held after 1/2 days of tough racing the gap between the elite and the rest is much wider. Why not have the relays as the first race of a weekend so that everyone is fresh and competitive. Then just have a badge event on the Sunday which is unimportant but makes it worth travelling the distance for the relay.
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David - white
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how about for the british champs have the short race and relay on one weekend and the sprint and classic races on a different weekend? saves having to worry about finding bank holidays or skiving scots and so on as well.
for the JK I think it should stay as it is though.
for the JK I think it should stay as it is though.
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Ed - diehard
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well isnt the british relay champs are usually held on the sunday after the british champs on the saturday ie only one race rather than the two at the JK, 000000007 etc?
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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All good suggestions for relay format, but unless it's tied to another major event most people aren't going to travel. For the majority relays are good fun not a competitive thing.
I'm not sure what to suggest really as my two opinions contradict each other! I suspect the best place for it is where it usually is the day after the British. The general orienteering public (me included in this) will be there and the elite teams will travel anyway. If it was after Simonside as it should have been the "elite" race was a relatively short affair anyway to leave people fresh. Only us M21L's would've been to knackd to run the open.
I'm not sure what to suggest really as my two opinions contradict each other! I suspect the best place for it is where it usually is the day after the British. The general orienteering public (me included in this) will be there and the elite teams will travel anyway. If it was after Simonside as it should have been the "elite" race was a relatively short affair anyway to leave people fresh. Only us M21L's would've been to knackd to run the open.
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FatBoy - addict
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I agree. You need to have the relays tagged onto a major event or the majority of people probably won't go, and even then it may make the relays themselves less competitive.
As for classes / courses, you could if you wanted (to please the old people) keep the same number of classes but run lots of them on the same course, having prizes for each class (kind of like in fell races). I think this would work well.
As for classes / courses, you could if you wanted (to please the old people) keep the same number of classes but run lots of them on the same course, having prizes for each class (kind of like in fell races). I think this would work well.
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Mike - orange
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i think ed's idea's a good one... we could have the regular british champs and elite short race followed by the relay, and the sprint and classic (which could include a national event for non-elites) on a separate weekend.. they do something similar to that in sweden and it works really well...
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Rach - red
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also in sweden they have the open relays and the junior (ie under 21) relays on the same day so juniors have to choose which they want to do.
in norway they have the junior relay champs separate, combined with the night champs.
but we dont have a junior relay champs in the same way so i guess it doesnt really matter.
in norway they have the junior relay champs separate, combined with the night champs.
but we dont have a junior relay champs in the same way so i guess it doesnt really matter.
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I agree with mike, Tatty, petey & others there are too many classes at present from a competitive point & also from trying to commentate on 22 classes .
I couldnt find the links to Nor & Swe relay champs (other than SM/NM), but other countries of similar size & ranking have the following.
Den 21, Swi 18, Fra 11, GER 10, CZE 11 - the last 3 all similar spread of age groups - 14, 18, Open, 105, 140/145 (+ mini & 165 as additions).
I think we should aim for something similar but skewed to our strength in numbers.
mini, M&W14, M&W18, M & W Open, M & W 140, M/W165, adhoc (1 x TD3/4, 2 xTD 5 ) 11 classes max.
With prizes for best junior & vets teams in open
The biggest classes on monday were the Mens short - 39 teams, Womens short -28, Adhoc - 41. Why did these folk not run the agre groups - was it the distances involved after 2 days of O as some have suggested.
Perhaps all the senior classes should be planned for 40 mins max (maybe what the guidleines say?) & some more leg length variation.
Some more views from the 35/40/45/50 & adhoc/short runners would give BOF a better idea how best to cater for them.
Surely most people myself included get more satisfaction from running head to head with lots of other competitors in a relay than it just being like another individual race. Even doing last leg at Spring Cup there is still usually sizeable groups of runners about with 100 + teams.
I couldnt find the links to Nor & Swe relay champs (other than SM/NM), but other countries of similar size & ranking have the following.
Den 21, Swi 18, Fra 11, GER 10, CZE 11 - the last 3 all similar spread of age groups - 14, 18, Open, 105, 140/145 (+ mini & 165 as additions).
I think we should aim for something similar but skewed to our strength in numbers.
mini, M&W14, M&W18, M & W Open, M & W 140, M/W165, adhoc (1 x TD3/4, 2 xTD 5 ) 11 classes max.
With prizes for best junior & vets teams in open
The biggest classes on monday were the Mens short - 39 teams, Womens short -28, Adhoc - 41. Why did these folk not run the agre groups - was it the distances involved after 2 days of O as some have suggested.
Perhaps all the senior classes should be planned for 40 mins max (maybe what the guidleines say?) & some more leg length variation.
Some more views from the 35/40/45/50 & adhoc/short runners would give BOF a better idea how best to cater for them.
Surely most people myself included get more satisfaction from running head to head with lots of other competitors in a relay than it just being like another individual race. Even doing last leg at Spring Cup there is still usually sizeable groups of runners about with 100 + teams.
- Pooley
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SM is the swedish relay champs. not many classes there. the oldsters and youngsters can run in various lesser competitions. for example, here are the classes from skånes distriktmästerskap (probably this translates to Regional championships in BOF english)...
DH10, D12, D14, D16, D17-20, D21, D120, D150, DH ÄLDRE (various combinations of old people of different ages depending on sex), H12, H14, H16, H17-20, H21, H120, H150, H180
anyway, having said that, i think it's also crucial to recognise that 'we''re not living in sweden, and organising an event with swedish age classes won't solve any problems. or at least all of them.
DH10, D12, D14, D16, D17-20, D21, D120, D150, DH ÄLDRE (various combinations of old people of different ages depending on sex), H12, H14, H16, H17-20, H21, H120, H150, H180
anyway, having said that, i think it's also crucial to recognise that 'we''re not living in sweden, and organising an event with swedish age classes won't solve any problems. or at least all of them.
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ic - yellow
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I think what we have at the JK is acceptable so I don't see any need to do anything other than say the British should, have the same classes as the JK.
The only problem with the JK is the different lengths makes planning harder...
Ifor
The only problem with the JK is the different lengths makes planning harder...
Ifor
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ifor - brown
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Having spoken to a large number of M/W35+s in my and neighbouring clubs, nobody wants the mass of classes that currently proliferate (which don't reflect the ages of those who compete - many teams are made up of mixed age teams anyway). Nor does anybody want long runs. The general feeling after the JK was that the 'long' courses were far too long.
At vets levels, the distance should not be decided by projected winning time, unless that is made far shorter than 40 minutes. There is an increasing gulf between the 'elite' M35-45 and the rest, which means that barely a dozen or so runners at the JK got within 20% of the leading times.
I am totally mystified at the ongoing situation in the British Relays, and it's little wonder that they don't attract teams.
So - drop the number of classes and make them short (and I mean short - not so that so many runners are running longer in the relay than the individual as happened at the JK)!
At vets levels, the distance should not be decided by projected winning time, unless that is made far shorter than 40 minutes. There is an increasing gulf between the 'elite' M35-45 and the rest, which means that barely a dozen or so runners at the JK got within 20% of the leading times.
I am totally mystified at the ongoing situation in the British Relays, and it's little wonder that they don't attract teams.
So - drop the number of classes and make them short (and I mean short - not so that so many runners are running longer in the relay than the individual as happened at the JK)!
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awk - god
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Bravo AWK
My sympathies exactly. I would opt for a LG on AD HOC given the choice. I got that at the JK, it was longer than my indiv days (W45S)and at the upper edge of LG technicality.
Due to my relationship with the club captain. I got a late promotion at the British to Womens short. This was again longer than both the two days events I'd done before. It happened to be the same as my age group class, which I don't opt for due to my lack of fitness and sports injuries!
As for the classes at British. It's obvious why there were so many more W short/M short and AD Hoc. How many clubs can get three competitive injury free members in an age class particularly the M/W35 - M/W45. We struggle to get one in some of these. However M55 we could have run 3 teams but here you are required to have one W55, and we have only one in our club, who wasn't available. Hence three M50 teams with 6 M55's.
Also it's worth remembering W Short/M short and Ad Hoc allows Captains to cater for injuries , illness and people who just don't turn up. If you study the ages of runners on W short I think they go from 16 to at least 60
My sympathies exactly. I would opt for a LG on AD HOC given the choice. I got that at the JK, it was longer than my indiv days (W45S)and at the upper edge of LG technicality.
Due to my relationship with the club captain. I got a late promotion at the British to Womens short. This was again longer than both the two days events I'd done before. It happened to be the same as my age group class, which I don't opt for due to my lack of fitness and sports injuries!
As for the classes at British. It's obvious why there were so many more W short/M short and AD Hoc. How many clubs can get three competitive injury free members in an age class particularly the M/W35 - M/W45. We struggle to get one in some of these. However M55 we could have run 3 teams but here you are required to have one W55, and we have only one in our club, who wasn't available. Hence three M50 teams with 6 M55's.
Also it's worth remembering W Short/M short and Ad Hoc allows Captains to cater for injuries , illness and people who just don't turn up. If you study the ages of runners on W short I think they go from 16 to at least 60
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
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HOCOLITE - addict
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