Proposed new membership fees

[EddieH]

RJ where do I say that I put Focus in the bin? Where do I suggest that I am uninterested in ahat is going on? Absolutely nowhere (In any case how someone privately not reading something they don't want to read is discourteous I cannot imagine).

What I do say is that the cost of production (which for that quality must be substantial) is not IMHO higher than it should be - but as I am not interested in gloss I don't expect my opinion to be that of everyone else.

Incidentally RJ, I don't even know who Scott is, and I never claimed that my opinion was based on any straw poll or represented anyone elses's view.

[RJ]

I don't believe glossies have the power people think they have, and I do not think that time spent professionally creating Focus is good use of our funds.

You make a statement, in a manner that makes the reader think you perhaps have evidence for what you say. Do you? Focus is there to inform the readership/membership, and in the modern world one uses glossy print.... magazines for example. They don't have 'the power'..... then I wonder why so many organisations bother to get them printed!

In any case how someone privately not reading something they don't want to read is discourteous I cannot imagine.

Because 'actual' people in Matlock have taken the trouble to send us something they wish us TO read. If you can't see the discourtesy then I'm sorry for you Eddie!!

What I do say is that the cost of production (which for that quality must be substantial) is not IMHO higher than it should be.....

Of course you have researched all of this and are not just commenting 'off the top of your head'.... now are you? You will notice that advertisers take up some of the space.... I wonder what effect that has.

[Scott]

And I specifically said that my straw poll wasn't representative.

I would suggest that your friends who stick Focus into the 'bin' without reading it are the ones who have 'the problem'! It fact it is rather discourteous of them to do so. A quick scan of the pages and the articles is the least they should manage. How are we going to move this sport forward if we are only interested in our own little world of 'O'?

I'm sorry, but I really can't agree with this. If the sport is going to "move forwards" at all then there has to be room for (a large number of) people who just want to regularly turn up, compete, and go home again, without worrying about moving the sport forwards. I pay membership fees to five NGBs, and take part pretty regularly in all of their sports (the joys of being a full-time student), but for four of them I have no idea what is going on in terms of development/governance/elite programmes/etc, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to find out. Only two of them send me any information of that kind at all (predictably, the other two small sports), but neither of them put nearly as much effort and resources into doing so as BOF do.

There are 11,000 orienteers in UK..... I would suggest quite a few of them would like to know what is going on.

Yes, but there are also quite a few of them who couldn't care less, and are probably never going to, and to these people most of Focus is going to be uninteresting whether it's a full glossy magazine or a couple of sides of B&W photocopies. Personally, I think that somewhere between the two would be preferable.

Well I'm very reassured by the fact that the sport of orienteering has an anti-doping policy etc. It leads me to believe that the sport is mature and is a 'proper' sport!!

Are there many Focus readers are there who don't already think that orienteering is a "mature and 'proper' sport"?

[EddieH]

RJ If Auntie Flo gives you a book you have no interest in it is discourteous in the extreme to throw it in the bin in front of her or to tell her that it's rubbish. But are you SERIOUSLY telling me you would spend your time reading it in private in order not to be discourteous?

[RJ]

You need to answer that question yourself Eddie!!

[Scott]

Incidentally RJ, I don't even know who Scott is

But I know who you are... I'll try not to be too upset by my obscurity

[Karen B]

Sorry, Roger, but like some other folks I have spoken to, I read Focus because I feel I should, not because I want to. And I'm pretty bored with whatever the elite are doing.
Politically incorrect and not a properly conducted survey, but I suspect it's true of lots of orienteers who never read Focus or nopesport, but just want to go orienteering and let someone else wory about the admin. And the more BO tie us in knots, the more inclined I am to join the masses and ignore them.

[RJ]

So..... there are quite a few on here who are very eloquent in saying why Focus is rubbish and why they couldn't be bothered to read it etc.

So you just want to orienteer and aren't bothered how the sport is run. It is the clubs who run the sport.... so it most important to inform the membership about how that is being done, and how successfully it is being done..... therefore.... RDOs and their input, Participation Project, Online Print Portal, Club of the Year, Young Volunteer Award, National Family Week, Coaching Conference.

Mike Hamilton's update eloquently sets out a vision for the sport that collectively all clubs ascribe to. Perhaps some of you don't agree with that vision..... but at least it is set out for us all to create an opinion on. If we are going to work away, volunteer our efforts at club level, then it is good that we have the same hymn sheet. And it is also good that the 'bar' is set higher and higher as we develop.

So you couldn't care less what the elite are doing! They show how the sport should be done. You might be well past your 'sell by date' but there are loads of 'youth' who can see the examples and aspire to be 'the elite' of the future.

Just because there are loads of people who just want to orienteer on Sunday a few times a year.... and good on them.... it doesn't mean that we downgrade Focus to meet their expectations. We should be raising the bar all the time and showing the best and how it is done.

[Mrs H]

I'm not sure that "raising the bar" and the Whole Sports Plan are compatible. Reading the recommendations on how to get newcomers into the sport (you know - don't introduce them to proper orienteering too soon etc) I actually wondered if I was reading about a different sport to orienteering - especially with the accompanying picture of people lying on the floor of a sports hall. where is the adventure, challenge and excitement that keeps most people orienteering - and yes I have plenty actual proof that is what newcomers want - for themselves - and their children - the antidote to cotton wool culture - which we have in perfectly formed spade fulls - the recipe to produce free range kids. I'm not sure that people who need to meet the same group of coaches at the same place for 35 weeks are going to be able to cope with the rigours of orienteering. How am i meant to buy into the vision and give my time to support it when it is almost the anti-thesis of what I believe and know to work - the only bit I can put my hand on my heart and say i support is the concept of satellite clubs - and i know a bit about that too!

[youngladdie]

Yes, there are many orienteers who just want to 'turn up and run', and if they want to know what is going on can subscribe to 'CompassSport' - an excellent magazine by the way!
Focus should be optional, and if you want to recive it, then pay extra for it... if you dont want it, then pay less subscription.
Although I suspect it would probably be like Sky magazine, where the small print tells the subscriber how much the issue costs per person, but you cannot opt out and not pay that cost... but at least Sky tell their members the cost of production - BOF - how much does it cost, per person, to produce?
One of the main points tho is why should the Senior fees be increased, and the Junior fee not?

[geomorph]

Ah - back to focus bashing.

In some ways its a shame that there is a perceived need to publish paper glossies and it would be nice if we just stuck to web-based publication (I know its not inclusive.... so not pc). The idea of small optional prints is just not economic for BO(F) nor probably for those who are prepared to pay.

I've just filled in the Sport England survey (ooo aren't you truly a SELECT being and they asked what would encourage more people into the sport.

I replied

Stop government interference into the conduct of sport; it stifles initiative and wastes intolerable amounts of volunteers time chasing targets and paperwork that often have life-times less than the time commited to gathering/complying

I think if we were able to reduce this then BO(F) fees would reduce far more than stopping focus publication

ps - people at work think that we have a fantastic range of mags: focus, compasssport, region and club, all serving different viewpoints and levels.

[Adventure Racer]

The thing is, our club magazine is a far more interesting read than Focus, and still manages to convey all the information any ordinary person might need. If you want more than that there is CompassSport. Or if you need to disseminate some of the official info, then something much cheaper - it's not all about quality glossy presentation.

[SeanC]

Is it a good thing that the general o population read focus? Probably yes.

Does making the magazine glossy with better presentation make this more likely? Probably yes.

Is the cost/benefit worth it? I don't see how we can answer that here, though it's fun trying.

Regarding the club evenings perhaps expectation management is an issue? Seems to me that the sport needs more core volunteers willing to plan and organise. But I have a theory that most people need to feel confident in their orienteering ability before they are willing to do this.

Weekly coaching sessions could be an excellent way of "fast tracking" newcomers so that they reach expert level as soon as possible (and can therefore become organisers, mappers, planners etc sooner, thereby increasing participation by increasing the number of events).

Much depends on the venue perhaps. If that village hut is in the middle of a big orienteering area??? And I assume coaches can tweak the format to what works for them? Could it be on a saturday afternoon for example?

Perhaps we should see the weekly coaching thing as something that should be as well as a series of publicised local events, rather than instead of? Any comments?

[Marco Polo]

it would be nice if we just stuck to web-based publication (I know its not inclusive.... so not pc).

pun intended , I sincerely hope

[Scott]

Weekly coaching sessions could be an excellent way of "fast tracking" newcomers so that they reach expert level as soon as possible (and can therefore become organisers, mappers, planners etc sooner, thereby increasing participation by increasing the number of events).

Very true, but it's vitally important that clubs don't just put on these sessions with the expectation that those attending will be pressured into planning/organising/etc afterwards - they must be primarily aimed at increasing participation; an increase in volunteers should be a knock-on effect. (But - as I think you've pointed out before - it's horribly chicken-and-egg.)

BOF - how much does it cost, per person, to produce?

I strongly suspect that the people who can answer this are doing better things with their time than reading Nopesport. Perhaps try emailing them and asking?