New Event Structure

[graeme]

Then why bother with colours at all.

A very good question.

Unlike skiing, we dont need the colours to mark the route, unlike martial arts, they're not for belts. We don't need colours for just TD, we can use words.

The only reason I can think of is that TD + length* gives some 50-odd combinations, but most events stick to a trusted formula with about 7 courses, which is ample unless there are too many entrants for the start list. It then makes sense to use colours to describe them.

It's not an especially good answer, but I've not heard a better one.

* Length is an awful measure foisted on us by people who seem to believe all areas are equally fast, and totally misleading: we've all met the runner-types who insist 10km is not very far, still put a brave face on it 3hrs later, but are never seen at events again.
Winning time for a very good orienteer is much better.

[NeilC]

Looks like BAOC have come up with an innovative way to tackle the "every event must have a controller" situation. From the details of their event on Wednesday:

Planner: Colin Holcombe
Controller: Whoever gets there first?
Organiser: Tim Allsopp

[EddieH]

[SeanC]

DaveK wrote on another thread

"Saxons are doing this with the first regional event of 2009 on 4th January at Eridge Park, near Tunbridge Wells, Kent - scene of last year's (snowy) JK relay. Be interesting to see how it goes."

A pity I can't make it, but it will be interesting.

Looking at the start lists on the SAXONS website I think it looks a lot better listing the start times by course rather than class - all those 1 or 2 entry classes never gave a good impression to outsiders. However some might want the class displayed as well as the course?

Gnitworp is in the hotseat as the first controller of a level 2 event. Good luck Jim

[greywolf]

"Saxons are doing this with the first regional event of 2009 on 4th January ..... Looking at the start lists on the SAXONS website I think it looks a lot better listing the start times by course rather than class ...

start times are listed in 30 minute blocks - anyone know if they are they going to be more specific, or is it just a case of "turn up somewhen in that window" ?

good to see the new event structure promoting a radical approach re course length, I'm sure there's a few folk quite looking forward to an 82km "short brown"

[Tatty]

82 kms

[drobin]

My first thoughts from the first new format event (SAX at Eridge today);
- courses were more competitive
- winners of small classes eg M16, W40 are no longer so prominent.
- this may cause a reduction in attendance in the future from those used to 'winning'.
- and I can't see how the new structure is any more friendly to newcomers.

[Gnitworp]

82 kms

Winning time by arse-kicking superman, Axel Blomquist, 62min 58sec !

[The Loofa]

[quote="Gnitworp]

Winning time by arse-kicking superman, Axel Blomquist, 62min 58sec

but look who was well in the lead at halfway
question - did Colin D retire because he had a sore bottom?

[Gnitworp]

Maybe: steep Splitsbrowser gradients are always downwards, so presumably the best way to go down them is on your backside.

[SeanC]

Looking at the results, something that might annoy some is that the results can't be displayed by class, I guess this is something that would be sorted out if these mixed mode regionals were to become the standard.

Some good news for those in the South East. If you'd prefer to run a course other than the 'A' or 'B' course for your age class, it seems that you'll be awarded south east league points due to a more devious league calculation formula. This might attract a few extra runners to the MV and GO regionals in the next few weeks.

From the SEOA committee minutes

"For people who run down compared to the theoretical colour course for their age class I am proposing to factor their points by 0.75 as would have been done for S and B classes. I think if they run down 2 classes they should get a 0.5 factor, and maybe 0.25 if they run 3 down. That way they will get a reward for running but no way will they do better by running shorter.
This would be much more generous than currently. Now if they run down (apart from S and B) they would only get one point, as would everybody currently running on colour coded courses. If everybody thinks that different factors should be applied then I would be happy to go with that.

Philip Gristwood"

[sketchweppers]

My first thoughts from the first new format event (SAX at Eridge today);
- courses were more competitive
- winners of small classes eg M16, W40 are no longer so prominent.
- this may cause a reduction in attendance in the future from those used to 'winning'.
- and I can't see how the new structure is any more friendly to newcomers.

I still want to view my result compared to other competitors in my age class, and are badge times still going to be calculated for each age class?

As a relative newcomer to orienteering I also don't see how this new system is more friendly to newcomers. After attending several colour coded events, it was good to go to our first regional event last spring and only compare times with others in the same age class - instead of feeling really useless comparing my time with younger competitor doing the same course!

I am also a bit miffed by the removal of the junior ageless badge scheme for my kids. They are motivated by receiving badges, and have got a couple of colour coded badges now. My daughter has just become a W12 (as her birthday is unfortunately in December), and is reasonably competant at yellow courses. She has also done a couple of JW2 courses, but now if she wants to get a 'regional' badge, she now needs to do the orange course. I don't think she is quite ready to tackle the orange course, so it is hard to motivate her to do her best at the yellow course. She has nothing to gain. The other issue is that some juniors doing the yellow course are shadowed or helped by adults, and this is not indicated in the results, so it is not really fair to compare them. In the old style format if a junior was shadowed he/she would do the colour coded course (white, yellow etc), whereas a junior going alone would do the junior ageless course (JM/JW 2 etc).

I think that BOF has a real dilemma; on the one hand they need to create some world class athletes to attract funds, but they also want to increase participation amongst the general public. I don't think that these two outcomes can be achieved with the same programme. We are only mediocre orienteers and we feel that BOF does not really want us to bother competing at regional events under the new structure - that is certainly not encouraging for newcomers.

[greywolf]

Looking at the results, something that might annoy some is that the results can't be displayed by class

I still want to view my result compared to other competitors in my age class,

Well if you really must, then why not copy and paste your course results into e.g. Word or Excel and delete everyone who isn't in your age class?

Regional events have always had multiple age classes running the same course, and some individuals have always chosen to run up (or down) - all the new system does is give these courses a name rather than a number, and stop pretending that there were loads of separate "races" and that everyone the same age ran the same course...

personally, after another shambolic performance, I'm disappointed that the new event structure does absolutely nothing to improve my orienteering...perhaps i should have put "look at the map occasionally" in my resolutions

[graeme]

Could I get results excluding anyone who is quicker as a consequence of being younger, slimmer, more experienced, having better eyesight, advantageous start time, more time to train, ran in a pack or any other such advantage beyond my control?

The main change from previous events seems to be that younger adults are now included in the main event - e.g. half the M21s on Black, and the others spread across five courses. Nobody seems to have run down to win.

Also, despite all the BOF matrix shenanigans, the flyer nicely described the courses in exactly the way the Review Group intended.

Not sure why the junior ageless badges went - I see no good reason not to keep them. Although junior courses were off-remit for the Review Group the new structure is rather like
old junior one.

[DJM]

Hi SeanC and sketchweppers

One of the proposals currently under discussion is to replace the current multiple rankings lists by a single list to which results from all level 1 and 2 events would contribute. One of its strengths is that rankings points could be gained by every competitor irrespective of which course they ran (within reason obviously - they would all need to be of the same TD). In addition, the algorithm proposed takes into account the strength of field on each course so that, in theory, the same quality of performance leads to the same points whether you run Brown or Short Green.

So, if such a scheme were to be implemented, it should be possible to press a button on the results page on the BOF website and see the results just for your age class, ranked by points gained, and including every runner in your class whatever the course they entered.

Would this be of interest?