M/W 21 turnout.

[BandD]

Talking about winners.......
I'd like to see them getting a bit more recognition.
1 It gives them support.
2 It gives them reward for work, effort and success.
3 It builds up a few characters to attract young enthusiasts - the awe factor.
4 It builds up the image of orienteering as a "serious" sport.
Why can't the BOF website (and the other association sites) do a bit more in this respect?
A summary of top results (top events and top people) should be front page on the website each Monday.
Just for example - last weekend we had Scott Fraser winning in Fife and Oli Johnson racing in Sheffield. Both worth website headlines.
The way I see it is if British Orienteering doesn't think these things are worth reporting why should the national and regional press.
It is no good saying the press didn't report Britain's world gold if BOF doesn't think people like Fraser and Johnson are worth a mention at other times.
Scottish Athletics for example does two or more action news summary pieces each weekend.
Similarly a preview piece on Friday could tell where the best of the action is going to be in the weekend ahead.

[Paul Frost]

One of the problems of urban events is theft/vandalism.
We have now had 2 SI units stolen at 2 different events, even though they were fixed to an object with a wire strop and U-bolt clamp. So a spanner or wrench would be required to remove it.
It is such a retrograde step to go back to pin punches plus there is still the theft/vandalism risk of the control.
There is no way we could man every control as I have seen at other events I've been to.

Perhaps I should start a new thread for ideas on how to solve this.

[redkite]

Paul
Build the cost of losing an occassional unit into the costings. Do not see a problem with this. Make the punter pay the true costs of holding an event.

[Angry Haggis]

Similarly a preview piece on Friday could tell where the best of the action is going to be in the weekend ahead.

I like this idea a lot, it should be possible to do automatically from the current fixtures list.

On a not entirely unrelated note, if there was a website/facility where people could "rate the map" (Am I Hot or Not style but based on having run on the map rather than just looking at a screenshot), would people use it? I'm interested because this could be a good way to build up a quality score for a map, which would then be part of the formula behind such a "best of the action" list.

[RJ]

......On a not entirely unrelated note, if there was a website/facility where people could "rate the map" ......

Sounds OK to begin with. The map, however, will be judged according to its TD5 content because of our love affair with it. But many formats (eg. Park racing, Urban, Sprint etc) certainly don't use TD5. So, the proviso would be that the map/area would produce a quality rating depending on its ability to give the best racing conditions.

[awk]

Sounds OK to begin with. The map, however, will be judged according to its TD5 content because of our love affair with it. But many formats (eg. Park racing, Urban, Sprint etc) certainly don't use TD5.

I don't think this is a problem at all! The praise rightly heaped on maps such as Scarborough and London show how much people appreciate these maps and the effort they demand. I'm currently working on a small urban map, and they are much more time consuming than standard terrain. I could even go as far as to say that London is possibly the best map I've run on this year (with Hampstead Heath, Culbin and Tankersley all vying for second).

Incidentally, TD5 is almost impossible in urban racing, but some of these races have produced some of the most technical orienteering I've encountered; not just areas like the Barbican or Venice, but quite a few others when running at the speeds possible in an urban area. Looks like TDs might need redefining!

Ithink York predates that, this year's was the 8th.

Yes it does, but Battersea was our (awk family) first experience of urban racing. It was a revelation!

[SJ]

I think that giving prizes to older/junior classes has little, if any, impact on retaining or attracting 21s and that beginners will focus more on their personal enjoyment of the race they run, and whether it meets their needs, which might be to keep fit, improve their running without getting bored, get a new hobby to meet people etc...

Running seems to be getting increasingly popular so it would be great to see this growing enthusiasm have some effect on orienteering. How do we do this? At the moment we don't seem to have enough publicity - It would be great to hear someone say that they came across an orienteering event or event flier whilst at the gym/surfing the web/out for a run.

I occasionally get asked "how do you get involved/find out about orienteering" and if they seem keen I'll give them the web address of the nearest club or tell them about an event coming up - it's always great when there is something nearby and mid-week as this seems to appeal to people who would consider fitting something else into their busy week rather than managing weekend plans around driving to an event where they might not even enjoy themselves or might not be able to convince the other half/kids that it's a good way to spend a Saturday/Sunday.

I'm sure that the trail Os and Sussex sprint O's help with advertising in Runners World...what about advertising in local gyms? - maybe this is done but I'm not aware of it.

[Gnitworp]

At today's Regional Event at Postensplain, a selection event for Interland 2009, there were 4 starters on M21L (2 M18s, 1 M20 and 1 M45). The largest class by far was M60L with 27 starters (26 M60s and 1 M65)

Illustrative of the scale of the problem?

[geomorph]

At today's Regional Event at Postensplain, a selection event for Interland 2009, there were 4 starters on M21L (2 M18s, 1 M20 and 1 M45). The largest class by far was M60L with 27 starters (26 M60s and 1 M65)

Illustrative of the scale of the problem?

Very much so. YBT final on the same day involving a few feeder clubs did not help overall turnout and probably downed the M21turnout as well.

Indeed Peter H and Ben W (the M18's) were only there i suggest because their clubs did not make YBT.

So all you M/W21's apart from travel distance, why weren't you there?

[Simon]

So all you M/W21's apart from travel distance, why weren't you there?

Orienteering did not enter into my plans this past weekend. Or, indeed, the previous weekend. I've become much more picky about the events I enter and I am generally picking multi-event weekends. In the meantime I am working on improving my general fitness and running.

For the last weekend in November I ran a half marathon in the New Forest. Of about 300 finishers one third were either msnr (40-) or fsnr (35-). The event was well supported and the event HQ was in a local school. On finishing we returned to the school where we got tea and a bun, part of the entry fee, and could sit around talking.

This past weekend I went to one of the parkrun's. After the run a group of us went off to a local hotel where we talked for the rest of the morning while consuming coffee and cakes. On Sunday I went for a long run.

[SeanC]

We might learn more from the positive cases. Which events this weekend/last week did attract a reasonable number of M/W 21's?

[Paul Frost]

The Glasgow Parks Champs on Sunday had a reasonable number of younger participants, but I understand that there were about 10 or so more that had entered but didn't turn up.

The event was a perfect match for some of the suggestions made in this thread:

• Central urban location
• Coffee & cake available before and after at the second and third locations (so you could have had 4 separate caffeine & sugar hits).
• 3 events in one day, so good value if you have travelled any distance.
• Very competitive
• Lots of prizes
• Great fun atmosphere

I thoroughly recommend it, add it to your diaries for next year.
Visit the Stag website for info & results and RouteGadget.

[funnyrunner]

I think the lack of variety in the 21 races in britain is a big factor. My biggest annoyance is the lack of middle distance races. Yet again at the JK2009 the 21L field will end up running further than 21E during the weekend. As 21L for some stupid reason has 2 long distance races, instead of a middle and long like 21E.

Also the lack of 21s at events over the past few weekends should be quite normal as it is the off season for most runners.

[Gnitworp]

In contrast to the statistics in my previous post, a Regional (Badge) Event held on the same day as Postensplain (7th Dec) near Guildford in 1986 had 139 starters on M21A and 82 on M21B. There were just 9 starters on the single M60 course.

[T5]

So all you M/W21's apart from travel distance, why weren't you there?

I was working a 12hr Saturday nightshift during a railway closure. Am I excused?!

I think you'll find work is the biggest barrier to M/W21's across the board. As a junior I survived on natural youthful energy topped up with a bit of training. As a uni student I still had the energy and time to train. I now work a minimum 50hrs per week (often far more) which leave me physically drained. I'm hoping (please don't burst my bubble) that when I head into M35 (something that is approaching sooner than I thought...) I'll have got to a stage in my career where I have a better work-life-balance which lets me get back to orienteering on a more regular basis.

M/W21 coincides with a period in peoples lives where they are building their careers and social lives - something has to give. Training and competing takes a lot of energy - sitting in a pub with a pint and a roast does not.

I find I need a focal point to get me off my @rse and get training. For the last couple of years that challenge has been Half Marathons. Initially the sense of achievement was in competing each race - in 2009 I'm aiming for sub-1:30. When I achieve that I'll be looking for the next challenge. I can't see the focal points or corresponding sense of achievement in O nowadays. At uni and before I was up near the top and had a few wins at Nationals and the like. I am nowhere near fit enough to be winning M21L (let alone M21E). Would I get "achievement" by winning M21S?

However, a by-product of my HM training is being almost fit enough to enjoy the odd O event when I have the time. These are usually selected to be those with something different to offer - London, York, JK. I missed the British in Culbin and - having been the other side of the bay looking into the forest from a wedding a matter of weeks later - I was gutted. (5 weddings in the year also takes a chunk out of weekend competing!)