From my dad: for you to discuss
In recent Focus BOF asked for comments and suggestions on classes in relays by Dec 31st.
Two major problems at the moment.
1. Juniors are leaving their family's club mainly to get more competitive relay runs. This fragments families entry of events and divorces juniors from the organisational aspects of their local club. However, in many cases, it is impossible to get a decent competitive run their age group competing for their local club.
2. There was a welcome influx of Scandis at the JK this year. However, they also were unable to get qualifying club teams together, ran for their region, and were disqualified. Not very welcoming if we want them back next year!
Solution: Juniors in both JK and BOC Relays run in their age group, but teams are selected for their regions, by the Regional Junior Squad Coach. This would enable keen juniors to get decent quality competition in relays, and also enable Scandinavian regional teams, eg Ostfold, Norway to be competitive. This would provide a good competitive framework, which is currently sadly lacking. Relays are a key part of elite competition.
Views please.
David Hanstock
From me: A couple of points. I think dad is very right. It would make relays much more like the JIRCs, which I dont see as a bad thing because the JIRCs relays are always a very high standard of competition. There would still be club relays, eg the Peter Palmers. Dad's idea would just enable the juniors who are the only ones in their age group from their club to get a good run and good relay experience.
Also - I can see that juniors from strong UK clubs may well be against it. But I run for SARUM who are currently dominating many of the junior classes, female and younger generally, but it doesnt stop me from thinking its a good idea for everyone else on the whole.
Junior Relays
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i'm not sure, i'm really not.
on the one hand i think it gives smaller clubs who cant put a full junior team out a chance. and that's a good way of encouraging juniors to relays where they can gain good relay experience and prevents club swapping. JK internationally wise - i don't know, what are the scandi's rules on relays where british people enter? if they have regional areas, perhaps its a good move to go that way too
but then again... the regional areas will field their best teams and group teams that way. the weakest people will be the ones without a run.. is that the right way round? i personally love running with tess + my sis and although tessa's the elite among us, its team work that gets me round the course and i perform better than i would - motivation that i don't usually have. at the british (last year..?) we were 2nd 18- with none of us being 18 which shocked a few people. if it were regional teams id be half-hearted being in a team - yes of my own standard - and be thinking there wasnt a chance in hell of winning. sounding a bit selfish now perhaps what i mean is that the glory of it is that not many clubs have 3 brilliant juniors who will automatically win, so there's some competition with finding a strong weakest runner.. therefore allowing non-elite juniors to win something? or something along those lines. i know what i mean!
as for the better orienteers, i assume they'd rather have a highly competitive team and sometimes they could be frustrated with the likes of me in the team! so how do you please the most people?
perhaps there are otherways of addressing the problems? juniors who moved to sarum for example have shown their old clubs that they need to provide a bit more - fair or unfair, i don't want to offend anyone. hmm.... i think i just confused myself and have probably been completely hypocritical somewhere so don't shout at me pretty please..
we've been given the chance to affect (hopefully) a decision which would affecting us rather than the seniors, so come on.. post!
(i hope i didnt sound too biased against it - i'm neutral really - i just know more about that side. its about how it affects the majority of people and how good for the sport it is that matters, and if that means making it regional then a thumbs up from me.. i just haven't been convinced)
on the one hand i think it gives smaller clubs who cant put a full junior team out a chance. and that's a good way of encouraging juniors to relays where they can gain good relay experience and prevents club swapping. JK internationally wise - i don't know, what are the scandi's rules on relays where british people enter? if they have regional areas, perhaps its a good move to go that way too
but then again... the regional areas will field their best teams and group teams that way. the weakest people will be the ones without a run.. is that the right way round? i personally love running with tess + my sis and although tessa's the elite among us, its team work that gets me round the course and i perform better than i would - motivation that i don't usually have. at the british (last year..?) we were 2nd 18- with none of us being 18 which shocked a few people. if it were regional teams id be half-hearted being in a team - yes of my own standard - and be thinking there wasnt a chance in hell of winning. sounding a bit selfish now perhaps what i mean is that the glory of it is that not many clubs have 3 brilliant juniors who will automatically win, so there's some competition with finding a strong weakest runner.. therefore allowing non-elite juniors to win something? or something along those lines. i know what i mean!
as for the better orienteers, i assume they'd rather have a highly competitive team and sometimes they could be frustrated with the likes of me in the team! so how do you please the most people?
perhaps there are otherways of addressing the problems? juniors who moved to sarum for example have shown their old clubs that they need to provide a bit more - fair or unfair, i don't want to offend anyone. hmm.... i think i just confused myself and have probably been completely hypocritical somewhere so don't shout at me pretty please..
we've been given the chance to affect (hopefully) a decision which would affecting us rather than the seniors, so come on.. post!
(i hope i didnt sound too biased against it - i'm neutral really - i just know more about that side. its about how it affects the majority of people and how good for the sport it is that matters, and if that means making it regional then a thumbs up from me.. i just haven't been convinced)
- *Carol*
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I think it should stay as clubs, or it could devalue clubs completely for juniors which would be bad news.
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali
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J.Tullster - diehard
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My main problem is that I have been running in a short women's team for the last two years as SYO have no junior girls apart from me. Before that I ran in a n/c team with Dan Tett on M18- with him running two legs and I ran the short middle leg. However the other clubs in our region with any older juniors can field at least one competitive team in each class so if I were to run with them it would probably not work out as they would rather run as a club.
Perhaps the best solution is to have a lucky dip for juniors who cant field a team from their club with everybody stating their prefered leg and class and the organisers sorting them in to 'pot luck' teams. This way everyone still gets a run and could even bring out some very competitive teams.
Perhaps the best solution is to have a lucky dip for juniors who cant field a team from their club with everybody stating their prefered leg and class and the organisers sorting them in to 'pot luck' teams. This way everyone still gets a run and could even bring out some very competitive teams.
- CHS
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It sounds like a good idea, and running as a region would probably allow more teams to be formed then there are already, and it would allow better competition, but getting a run would become more difficult for those of us who are not amazing orienteers, and it might discourage orienteers who are new to the sport.
however it certainly would be good competition for more able juniors, particulary those from a smaller club, however i think the main thing is how many clubs can get a competitive junior team together? if there are a lot of clubs that can i don't think its worth it, but i know BOK can't really and they are one of the bigger clubs in the country.
Maybe there could be a system where if a club could create a team it would be allowed to enter it, but any club which could not could enter their juniors in regional teams.
however it certainly would be good competition for more able juniors, particulary those from a smaller club, however i think the main thing is how many clubs can get a competitive junior team together? if there are a lot of clubs that can i don't think its worth it, but i know BOK can't really and they are one of the bigger clubs in the country.
Maybe there could be a system where if a club could create a team it would be allowed to enter it, but any club which could not could enter their juniors in regional teams.
- Nicky
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i think most clubs can make a team....but in eryri there are 5 juniors so it always means 3 get a run and the other 2 jus get put in a non comp or the ad hoc.......and for the last two yearsit been me in the ad hoc cos we've been to old to go in the 40 minus but we didnt have two juniors of a good enought standard to go in 48...so if it were regions i think id'd work out better for wales anyway as we have so few juniors anyway
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