Having returned from Croeso with results that are at the opposite end of the results table from Mrs H, how do I go about running fast over terrain?
I'm not a fast runner, but could only dispair as I lost contact with others over difficult terrain such as Ogof Ffynion Ddu (limestone, heather, peat bog etc.) What's the secret - or should I just go for it and end up like some bloke in the St John's tent with an iced ankle and blood soaked bandage on his head (and presumabley no finish time)?
Terrain Running
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Im no expert and will prolly get slated for this reply,
i think terrain running is a mixture of things.
1) terrain running comes with practice, so you want to be out in terrain training.
2) Core stability - helps your balance, and helps you glide over the terrain
3) endurance, maybe building in longer runs (not always in terrain) so you can last the distance.
4) in terrain finding a steady pace you can be comfertable with, if you are stop start balance is very hard.
5)usual strength,hill intervals etc all help to run better in terrain.
i think terrain running is a mixture of things.
1) terrain running comes with practice, so you want to be out in terrain training.
2) Core stability - helps your balance, and helps you glide over the terrain
3) endurance, maybe building in longer runs (not always in terrain) so you can last the distance.
4) in terrain finding a steady pace you can be comfertable with, if you are stop start balance is very hard.
5)usual strength,hill intervals etc all help to run better in terrain.
It's all about next year
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Drew - junior moderator
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I know that areas like OFD if you want to go real quick you always run the risk of being in the meat wagon at the end, no matter how much you do all the good things Drew mentions. How many top orienteers have trashed an ankle at some point? How many rely on tape to hold them together on a daily basis?
Areas like Sennybridge on the other hand only have pockets of rough stuff and raw speed is mainly what you need. To achieve this you have to mix up the "get round the course" training runs with speed sessions (e.g flat out 3km, interval work, even track sessions). If you can do the speed sessions in mild terrain all the better as this should improve the skills you need to help stay out of the ambulance. Avoid trying to do speed sessions in rough/steep terrain as this will build strength/fitness for these, rather than speed.
Areas like Sennybridge on the other hand only have pockets of rough stuff and raw speed is mainly what you need. To achieve this you have to mix up the "get round the course" training runs with speed sessions (e.g flat out 3km, interval work, even track sessions). If you can do the speed sessions in mild terrain all the better as this should improve the skills you need to help stay out of the ambulance. Avoid trying to do speed sessions in rough/steep terrain as this will build strength/fitness for these, rather than speed.
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FatBoy - addict
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thanks guys, much as I thought - I need to train more and faster. At Sennybridge I just didn't have the speed to make up for the navigational errors that I made (so came last twice).
Went for a longer run (6km) at lunch time in "urban terrain" (steps, tourists, buses, dispatch riders etc) which must be better than the treadmill (and was more fun).
It was interesting that I had been doing "hill work" by using the stepper at the gym and the results was that I could run up hill very well, but not fast on the flat, and I just can't do downhill fast (other than on my backside, which seemed to be the approved method at Cardennau)
Went for a longer run (6km) at lunch time in "urban terrain" (steps, tourists, buses, dispatch riders etc) which must be better than the treadmill (and was more fun).
It was interesting that I had been doing "hill work" by using the stepper at the gym and the results was that I could run up hill very well, but not fast on the flat, and I just can't do downhill fast (other than on my backside, which seemed to be the approved method at Cardennau)
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PorkyFatBoy - diehard
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I think a lot of it's about confidence - if you think you can run fast through terrain then you usually can, at least for a short way until fatigue kicks in or you break something
seriously, strength, endurance and flexibility are all required as well as the confidence. No better training than actually running in the terrain - terrain intervals are good. If you've no terrain then you need to improvise. I've heard stories of Bilbo when he was in Reading spending most of his training time in ploughed fields for that north yorks. forest feeling...
seriously, strength, endurance and flexibility are all required as well as the confidence. No better training than actually running in the terrain - terrain intervals are good. If you've no terrain then you need to improvise. I've heard stories of Bilbo when he was in Reading spending most of his training time in ploughed fields for that north yorks. forest feeling...
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Ed - diehard
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its finding a balance to cater for all terrain. Or at least in the terrain you want to run well in.
Shall we just pussy foot around to not get hurt?
How many top orienteers do you know that pussy foot?
Shall we just pussy foot around to not get hurt?
How many top orienteers do you know that pussy foot?
It's all about next year
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Drew - junior moderator
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in the winters of 1998/9 and 99/00 we got a small training group going in edinburgh - me, ewan, johan greger, clive, bruce - usually three - four of us from that group. around late jan - early feb we stopped doing the flat, tarmac based meadows intervals and took similar protocols into terrain around edinburgh - usually the hermitage/observatory hill - a mix of muddy footpaths, varied woodland, stream crossings, steep hills and bog. the intensity of running head to head intervals aggressively in terrain really improved my terrain fitness/psychology for the following seasons. having other people around you was perhaps the main motivating factor - it felt like you were in a race situation, and the sessions sometimes got quite manic - piling down hills and smashing through young trees. i reckon it made for great training and was a useful way of setting yourself up for the spring/easter races.
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bendover - addict
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Ed wrote:training time in ploughed fields
...now there's an idea as there are a lot of those around my house now that the combines have finished. Most of my training has to be fitted in at lunchtimes aroudn the City (that's London, btw), unless I get a headlamp and go running in the evenings
is also a problem, very few people in my club (which is small anyway) train in any sense. Their idea of a pre-event warm up is a cup of coffee and a fag.having other people around you was perhaps the main motivating factor -
Maybe I just need to move house to somewhere up north
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PorkyFatBoy - diehard
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Drew wrote:Shall we just pussy foot around to not get hurt?
How many top orienteers do you know that pussy foot?
True. It's all about how much risk you're willing to put in. Personally it's less for every day I get older, but then I'm not a top orienteer.
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FatBoy - addict
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Drew wrote:local fell running club?
...will probably be 250-300 miles away . If I run from home I can get 10m climbing on a 6km run - which ever direction I run in.
Actually, the local running club is rather good at XC - 2 national sqaud members from memory - so maybe I'll give them a call
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PorkyFatBoy - diehard
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Drew wrote:i think what ed said about conifdence, commit 100% and usually you dont get hurt.
I agree if you don't commit to each "move" in the rough you will probably hurt yourself. I'd probably agree with everything you say but want to highlight the "usually" bit. Maybe when you get to 30 you'll understand that the number of times "usually" isn't true has notched up a few serious injuries and it's perhaps best to take 10% off the speed in the real rough, just so you'll still be oing at 40.
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FatBoy - addict
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No it's subconcious, as with anything you've trained to do. You may well have trained to without thinking run at 100%, I run at 100% on nice terrain but when it gets rough (really rough) I naturally drop to approx 90% speed to avoid damage to ankle/eye/collarbone/elbow/heel etc that have all been damaged in my youth running 100% everywhere.
Time for a FatBoy story (some of you may remember this)...
I remember about 12 years ago coaching on the M/W15 (16 is it now?) Lakeside thing, and there was a coaches mass start sprint race on the Sunday afternoon. Several of the "coaches" at the time are well known to us (JSWC, Dan M, Jez Ez etc), and I wasn't exactly far behind myself at the time in speed. There was a figure of 8 course run in every direction/combination of the two loops which I think gives 8 different combinations? (A level maths was a long time ago). I get the same first half split as JSWC and getting back to the mid point he's just gone out of sight. In my eagerness to catch him I tripped on some bracken above a crag and then did the next 20 metres of height bouncing of elbows and knees. Of course I got up did the second half and finished 5th I think, with blood pouring out of all 4 corners.
However the moral of the story is I then couldn't lean on my elbow for about 4 years until the piece of bone I'd chipped off finally was ground down to dust. All that discomfort for attempting to save 10 seconds in some race that means nothing?
Time for a FatBoy story (some of you may remember this)...
I remember about 12 years ago coaching on the M/W15 (16 is it now?) Lakeside thing, and there was a coaches mass start sprint race on the Sunday afternoon. Several of the "coaches" at the time are well known to us (JSWC, Dan M, Jez Ez etc), and I wasn't exactly far behind myself at the time in speed. There was a figure of 8 course run in every direction/combination of the two loops which I think gives 8 different combinations? (A level maths was a long time ago). I get the same first half split as JSWC and getting back to the mid point he's just gone out of sight. In my eagerness to catch him I tripped on some bracken above a crag and then did the next 20 metres of height bouncing of elbows and knees. Of course I got up did the second half and finished 5th I think, with blood pouring out of all 4 corners.
However the moral of the story is I then couldn't lean on my elbow for about 4 years until the piece of bone I'd chipped off finally was ground down to dust. All that discomfort for attempting to save 10 seconds in some race that means nothing?
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FatBoy - addict
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