Just saw the quote below in a competition invitation:
Coaches that prepared Lithuanian champions in classes D20, D21, H20, H21 are awarded with diplomas
That set me thinking about one particular area we are not strong in in GB. The use of personal coaches. How many of you out there have real proper personal coaches that you are in regular (once a week at least) contact to discuss your training programmes and technical aspects of the sport? Not many I guess.
If coaching is to develope as coaching rather than instructing (which is what most of this school stuff really is) then it's upto the athletes to seek personal coaches and force the development ahead by creating a demand.
It would be good to be in a position in GB in some years to put something like the above quote in the BOC invitation (not that I'm agreeing it's a good idea)
Developing Coaching
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
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OK, now you're talking gross. Demand does generate supply, albeit slowly. I got trained up because a parent asked me to properly coach their orienteering junior. Had seen good trained coaches at work, with my kids and others, twice a week, every week, at local athletics track,so I said (rightly/wrongly) "not until I've got some proper training". Sadly, by time had found way through BOF coach training structure, including two courses cancelled at the last minute (lack of interest), said junior was almost senior!
Having got trained find there's support structure for coaches in BOF, and been and found someone to offer me personal support too, as well finding fantastic, generic coach support system in local sports development unit.
But prefer working at what you're calling "instructing" rather than the higher performance end. What's certain is, the sport does need both.
I'm encouraged my local multi-sports club will pay trained coaches, as may allow some people to get trained/ involved who otherwise couldn't, and p'haps free some others for what you're suggesting
(btw, in the nicest possible way, though I've never knowingly met you, I see you as the Shrek of nopesport, but hopefully with a better Scottish accent)
Having got trained find there's support structure for coaches in BOF, and been and found someone to offer me personal support too, as well finding fantastic, generic coach support system in local sports development unit.
But prefer working at what you're calling "instructing" rather than the higher performance end. What's certain is, the sport does need both.
I'm encouraged my local multi-sports club will pay trained coaches, as may allow some people to get trained/ involved who otherwise couldn't, and p'haps free some others for what you're suggesting
(btw, in the nicest possible way, though I've never knowingly met you, I see you as the Shrek of nopesport, but hopefully with a better Scottish accent)
- ifititches
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- Location: just SW of greatest track junction in UK, I think.....
Last time I saw SHREK it was on video & dubbed into Lithuanian so no Scottish accent there.........
Anyway as far as performance coaching goes (as opposed to instruction) then BOF structure offers zero support. (Interesting to note that at one point last year non of the GBR Elite Coaches were actually qualified via BOF system.
There are many potential performances coaches out there but they don't have the energy or inclination to jump through the instruction hoops.
While I was on the SOA Executive we did start looking at the coaching structure with a view to establishing a two strand scheme... performance (coaching) and recreational (instruction). Not sure how this is progressing now.
Anyway it's still down to individual athletes - if they want to improve they should seek an individual coach.
Anyway as far as performance coaching goes (as opposed to instruction) then BOF structure offers zero support. (Interesting to note that at one point last year non of the GBR Elite Coaches were actually qualified via BOF system.
There are many potential performances coaches out there but they don't have the energy or inclination to jump through the instruction hoops.
While I was on the SOA Executive we did start looking at the coaching structure with a view to establishing a two strand scheme... performance (coaching) and recreational (instruction). Not sure how this is progressing now.
Anyway it's still down to individual athletes - if they want to improve they should seek an individual coach.
- gross2004
OK, for those without energy/inclination - if I can do it with a job, a family, and in my fifties, then so can you. I admit, despite getting the O coaching qualifications I've still got a lot to learn,but have some great juniors (and seniors if they'd come) to practise on! And it means my club can go for training/coaching/instruction on areas we otherwise wouldn't be able to use.
But I don't take short cuts to new skills in my medical work, so would never have felt happy working outside my trained skill level in the other things I do either.Probably some who haven't been through coach training do a fantastic job,especially if they've gained the skills through other work, but doing it outside a support structure can be a risky place to be. You don't need to look too far into sport-coaching's troubles to find examples.
It took a lot of weekends, meant I didn't get to compete as much as I'd have liked to, and needed v. understanding family, but it was a lot of fun, and a good challenge (especially the First Aid, and being the oldest person by a long way on the courses I went on!). Made lots of friends/met loadsa interesting people. Just searching for bit more energy now to move it on some more.
End of proselytising. Off to catch ferry. See y'all at Peter Palmer relays?
But I don't take short cuts to new skills in my medical work, so would never have felt happy working outside my trained skill level in the other things I do either.Probably some who haven't been through coach training do a fantastic job,especially if they've gained the skills through other work, but doing it outside a support structure can be a risky place to be. You don't need to look too far into sport-coaching's troubles to find examples.
It took a lot of weekends, meant I didn't get to compete as much as I'd have liked to, and needed v. understanding family, but it was a lot of fun, and a good challenge (especially the First Aid, and being the oldest person by a long way on the courses I went on!). Made lots of friends/met loadsa interesting people. Just searching for bit more energy now to move it on some more.
End of proselytising. Off to catch ferry. See y'all at Peter Palmer relays?
- ifititches
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BOF scheme is fine if you are a bog standard club orienteer who wants to put something back into your sport. You're a parent with kids... it suits great. However if you are anything away from BOF normality you don't stand a chance........
For example (unless I'm 100% wrong) to become a club coach or whatever it's called now you need to jump through hoop one & become an instructor.... which means you need to find some kids to instruct..... so you have zero interest in teaching kids to orienteer & no access to them anyway.... what do you do?? Then if you do find the kids you need child protection clearance to work with them... hoop number 2... so if you are like me and when you applied for Child Protection Clearance the application was rejected what do you do? You are automatically debarred from becoming a coach! Why??? Not because I'm a pervert but because I didn't have a Scottish or UK address... no assessment could be made... therefore no chance of becoming an official BOF coach without fastracking....
Similarly in 1997 when I actually got round to doing a Club Coach course I was not approved because I couldn't show I'd completed a green course in the previous 6 months or whatever... despite having just the weekend before returned from Norway working with the Squad, despite having to control the exercises for the course provider because she wasn't certain the controls were in the correct place, despite being undoubtedly one of GB's top elite planners and a grade 1 controller etc etc.......... Beaurocracy suits the majority.... stand outside the majority in GBR just now & you haven't a chance... and elite & performance coaching in orienteering is outside the majority
For example (unless I'm 100% wrong) to become a club coach or whatever it's called now you need to jump through hoop one & become an instructor.... which means you need to find some kids to instruct..... so you have zero interest in teaching kids to orienteer & no access to them anyway.... what do you do?? Then if you do find the kids you need child protection clearance to work with them... hoop number 2... so if you are like me and when you applied for Child Protection Clearance the application was rejected what do you do? You are automatically debarred from becoming a coach! Why??? Not because I'm a pervert but because I didn't have a Scottish or UK address... no assessment could be made... therefore no chance of becoming an official BOF coach without fastracking....
Similarly in 1997 when I actually got round to doing a Club Coach course I was not approved because I couldn't show I'd completed a green course in the previous 6 months or whatever... despite having just the weekend before returned from Norway working with the Squad, despite having to control the exercises for the course provider because she wasn't certain the controls were in the correct place, despite being undoubtedly one of GB's top elite planners and a grade 1 controller etc etc.......... Beaurocracy suits the majority.... stand outside the majority in GBR just now & you haven't a chance... and elite & performance coaching in orienteering is outside the majority
- gross2004
Hi Gross
Your're not 100% wrong but......
The Club Coach award does enable one to bypass the Instructor course, this was included deliberately to enable more experienced orienteers to fast track (I know, cos it was me that wrote it). What does happen is that when you come to do assessment, there are one or two extra bits you have to do to show that you can coach the more novice levels, but you don't have to do the training etc., and it doesn't have to be with children.
On the Child Protection issue - that's a bummer. Have you spoken to Derek about it?
On the Green course issue, you or your assessor misunderstood the requirements. They are that the candidate can demonstrate
"their competence at Step System level 5. The evidence to be used will be agreed with the assessor. Normally, candidates will need to achieve a colour standard (Green, Blue or Brown) appropriate to their physical ability, at an event deemed by the assessor to test the required skills. Event map and results to be submitted."
So an alternative way of assessing your competence should have been found. Certainly that cropped up several times when I was assessing, and the work you did would have been more than sufficient to satisfy.
Your're not 100% wrong but......
The Club Coach award does enable one to bypass the Instructor course, this was included deliberately to enable more experienced orienteers to fast track (I know, cos it was me that wrote it). What does happen is that when you come to do assessment, there are one or two extra bits you have to do to show that you can coach the more novice levels, but you don't have to do the training etc., and it doesn't have to be with children.
On the Child Protection issue - that's a bummer. Have you spoken to Derek about it?
On the Green course issue, you or your assessor misunderstood the requirements. They are that the candidate can demonstrate
"their competence at Step System level 5. The evidence to be used will be agreed with the assessor. Normally, candidates will need to achieve a colour standard (Green, Blue or Brown) appropriate to their physical ability, at an event deemed by the assessor to test the required skills. Event map and results to be submitted."
So an alternative way of assessing your competence should have been found. Certainly that cropped up several times when I was assessing, and the work you did would have been more than sufficient to satisfy.
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awk - god
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The BoF scheme level 1 does seem to be aimed at working with children (it is really a course for teachers or youth leaders to have an awareness of orienteering), but levels 2 and above are not necessarily youth orientated. I think the emphasis comes because most of the people who do the courses are providing for young people - sadly, in almost all adventure sports the only paid jobs are as instructors in centres, 80%+ of whose business is school trips. If you are not being paid for it, or it is not part of your "proper" job, giving time and energy to gaining a piece of paper is not very attractive.
Not surprisingly, the emphasis in the BoF scheme is on the "step" system of technical skills - this does give it an "instructional" rather than "performance" flavour - but with imagination, developing performance in orienteering is about developing those same skills, plus such things as fitness and metal training.
I am surprised about the criminal records check business. We employ teachers and other staff from abroad and know that a CRB check will not be possible. We have to replace it with taking up some good references and where appropriate providing "supervision" in the early weeks of work. After all, all a CRB check shows is that you have not (yet) been arrested or convicted of serious crime - it does not guarantee that you will be a "fit and proper" person.
Refusing someone from the EC the right to "practice their trade" (which does not have to be paid) in the UK by rigid application of rules they cannot comply with would be against some of the EC's most sacred principles and there have been lots of cases where this sort of bureaucracy has been challenged successfully.
Not surprisingly, the emphasis in the BoF scheme is on the "step" system of technical skills - this does give it an "instructional" rather than "performance" flavour - but with imagination, developing performance in orienteering is about developing those same skills, plus such things as fitness and metal training.
I am surprised about the criminal records check business. We employ teachers and other staff from abroad and know that a CRB check will not be possible. We have to replace it with taking up some good references and where appropriate providing "supervision" in the early weeks of work. After all, all a CRB check shows is that you have not (yet) been arrested or convicted of serious crime - it does not guarantee that you will be a "fit and proper" person.
Refusing someone from the EC the right to "practice their trade" (which does not have to be paid) in the UK by rigid application of rules they cannot comply with would be against some of the EC's most sacred principles and there have been lots of cases where this sort of bureaucracy has been challenged successfully.
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chrisecurtis - red
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- gross2004
ifititches wrote: (btw, in the nicest possible way, though I've never knowingly met you, I see you as the Shrek of nopesport, but hopefully with a better Scottish accent)
Ha ha ha - that's cheered me up no end on my return from holiday - mind you Shrek never said Bollocks once in the version I saw Love to see you take Robin on Gross - my money's all on you - sorry to se so flippant - if you could see the mountain of moldering O kit i've got to wash you'd need cheering up too Keep up the worthy debate.
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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