From talking to a member of the Yorkshire Junior squad I get the impression that the only approved method of using a compass these days (at least within the Yorkshire squad) is to set bearings with a protractor type compass. Thumb compasses are disapproved of, and the use of a standard compass in the style of a thumb compass is disapproved of.
Personally I use a standard compass in the style of a thumb compass. That is, I hold the compass permanently against the map and line up the north needle with the north lines on the map. I never twiddle the twiddley bit. I have been doing this for 30 years with a degree of success, and I have never understood the argument that setting a bearing is necessarily better.
Can anybody enlighten me as to what I am doing wrong?
When you set a bearing, you take one piece of information from the map (the angle between the required direction of travel and north), store it in the compass, then remove the map from the picture.
I can see that some people will find it easier to be more accurate this way – locating the north lines on the map is not always easy amongst the clutter, the map detail may be a distraction rather than a help, and the process of setting a bearing means there is a distinct switchover to compass mode.
However I find I am more accurate when I look at the map and the compass in conjunction with each other. Rather than switching to compass mode for parts of the course I am always in compass and map mode, and having them together forces me to look at the compass more often than I would if they were separate. Also I don’t think there is any loss of accuracy – how can there be when the lines on the base of a compass are just replicating the north lines from the map? I don’t have any trouble locating north lines, I always prefer to see the map detail, and in the distant past when I did try setting bearings I found it was at the expense of map reading.
It is an argument that has been going on since thumb compasses first appeared in the early 80s. I remember going on a junior training camp (1983 or 1984) where Bilbo had prepared some technique advice sheets. The bottom line of the compass sheet was “It doesn’t matter where you wear your compass as long as you are looking at it often enough”, with a cartoon drawing of somebody using a nose compass.
I am not saying everybody should do what I do. Different people obviously prefer different approaches. What I think juniors should be told is – these are the pros and cons of each approach, go and find out what works best for you.
Pasi Ikonen (8th in the WOC middle last week and world champion in 2001) didn't use a compass at all until last year and is now experimenting with a wrist compass, according to comments on worldofo. There is no right and wrong way to do it.
Compass Dogma
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Re: Compass Dogma
I quite agree. Do whatever you feel comfortable with.
"A balanced diet is a cake in each hand" Alex Dowsett, Team Sky Cyclist.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: Compass Dogma
Neil
Nothing wrong with the way that you are doing it. stick with it
Nothing wrong with the way that you are doing it. stick with it
- redkite
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Re: Compass Dogma
I may have been too busy ranting to make the point I was trying to make. I have no intention of changing what I do.
To summarise :-
I have often heard proponents of setting a bearing assert that it is inherently more accurate than holding the compass against the map. I can see no justification for this.
Coaches should not be dictating to juniors which style they use.
To summarise :-
I have often heard proponents of setting a bearing assert that it is inherently more accurate than holding the compass against the map. I can see no justification for this.
Coaches should not be dictating to juniors which style they use.
- Neil M40
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Re: Compass Dogma
There was no mention of approved or recommended compass method on the UKCC level 1 course. There might be on the level 2/3 courses, I don't know.
Personally I use a thumb compass apart from at Epping Forest where there is often a point feature control with a 300 or 400 metre run from an attack point across flat and relatively featureless terrain. Here I do set a bearing with a baseplate as I do find it more accurate than a bearing on a thumb compass... but a better orienteer could probably pick out the features in these bits and might use a thumb compass from a nearer attack point or just use the features to navigate.
Personally I use a thumb compass apart from at Epping Forest where there is often a point feature control with a 300 or 400 metre run from an attack point across flat and relatively featureless terrain. Here I do set a bearing with a baseplate as I do find it more accurate than a bearing on a thumb compass... but a better orienteer could probably pick out the features in these bits and might use a thumb compass from a nearer attack point or just use the features to navigate.
- SeanC
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Re: Compass Dogma
As a trainer of coaches, I can say that there is not a single 'BOF approved' way to teach the use of the compass. When I train coaches and coach people who come to my club coaching sessions I spend quite a lot of time getting over the idea of using the compass as an aide: firstly as an aide that you have the map the right way round (as a back up to setting the map with the features) and then to help to cut corners / aim off and as an aide to find a feature from an attack point. It takes a lot of practice for novices to get the hang of what the compass is for - the common belief is that the compass 'tells you which way to go'! I always explain that the map reading / interpretation tells them about the route; the compass is a tool to set the map / get direction right.
I try to help people (coaches and participants) to try out baseplate and thumb compasses - certainly coaches should be able to teach the use of both. Interestingly, I recently had a trainee coach (L1) who was not an orienteer and who found that she coped better with a thumb compass than a baseplate. Flexibility is important.
However, perhaps it may be necessary to train poeple to take an accurate bearing if they often make mistakes or are careless in the directional use of the compass?
I try to help people (coaches and participants) to try out baseplate and thumb compasses - certainly coaches should be able to teach the use of both. Interestingly, I recently had a trainee coach (L1) who was not an orienteer and who found that she coped better with a thumb compass than a baseplate. Flexibility is important.
However, perhaps it may be necessary to train poeple to take an accurate bearing if they often make mistakes or are careless in the directional use of the compass?
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Re: Compass Dogma
there are some people who don't even use a compass (Pasi Ikonen maybe?)
do whatever you feel comfortable with
do whatever you feel comfortable with
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: Compass Dogma
An interesting topic from Neil - thanks for bringing this up. We've been holding a few after-school sessions and have just progressed from orienteering around the local park to going in to the nearby woods where there's quite a complex path network. In the park we made a big deal of setting the map so that the North arrow on the map points to a place in the distance that everyone can see. The kids got the hang of this fine.
The problem came when they found themselves in the woods and there wasn't anywhere sufficiently far away that they could use to orientate the map. Result..... upside down maps and confused kids. They'd been asked to try to match the map to the paths/terrain as they walked round an exercise we'd set but this proved too hard a concept for many of them. We hadn't quite realised just how hard some would find this, but on the positive side it was nigh on impossible stopping them running.... at least they've latched on to orienteering being a running sport!
None of the kids had been asked to bring a compass, but one young girl had brought her baseplate compass along anyway. She got 10/10 for initiative when she came up with the idea of using her compass to find out where north was. Pity she used the baseplate and not the north arrow! Next time we do this session they'll all have compasses and be shown how to use them to find North.
I think that kids are best off learning to orienteer by using the map, and that a compass should just be used as an accessory to help keep it orientated. For that reason I'd prefer to use a thumb compass, or one without a rotating baseplate such as those simple clip-on ones that you can fasten to your map. For more advanced sessions, use of both a thumb and a baseplate compass should be taught allowing youngsters to make their own choice. Junior Squad members ought to be good enough to make that distinction themselves.
I'd be very interested to hear the experiences of other coaches, especially where younger children are concerned.
The problem came when they found themselves in the woods and there wasn't anywhere sufficiently far away that they could use to orientate the map. Result..... upside down maps and confused kids. They'd been asked to try to match the map to the paths/terrain as they walked round an exercise we'd set but this proved too hard a concept for many of them. We hadn't quite realised just how hard some would find this, but on the positive side it was nigh on impossible stopping them running.... at least they've latched on to orienteering being a running sport!
None of the kids had been asked to bring a compass, but one young girl had brought her baseplate compass along anyway. She got 10/10 for initiative when she came up with the idea of using her compass to find out where north was. Pity she used the baseplate and not the north arrow! Next time we do this session they'll all have compasses and be shown how to use them to find North.
I think that kids are best off learning to orienteer by using the map, and that a compass should just be used as an accessory to help keep it orientated. For that reason I'd prefer to use a thumb compass, or one without a rotating baseplate such as those simple clip-on ones that you can fasten to your map. For more advanced sessions, use of both a thumb and a baseplate compass should be taught allowing youngsters to make their own choice. Junior Squad members ought to be good enough to make that distinction themselves.
I'd be very interested to hear the experiences of other coaches, especially where younger children are concerned.
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Re: Compass Dogma
SeanC wrote:There was no mention of approved or recommended compass method on the UKCC level 1 course. There might be on the level 2/3 courses, I don't know.
Personally I use a thumb compass apart from at Epping Forest where there is often a point feature control with a 300 or 400 metre run from an attack point across flat and relatively featureless terrain. Here I do set a bearing with a baseplate as I do find it more accurate than a bearing on a thumb compass... but a better orienteer could probably pick out the features in these bits and might use a thumb compass from a nearer attack point or just use the features to navigate.
I tend to agree. I changed to thumb compass a couple of years ago and I definitely spend less time fiddling. But I try and avoid relying on it for more than 100m or so as I tend to wander more with the thumb compass. I absolutely needed it I would walk on the bearing which I found easier to stick to on a baseplate than a thumb.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: Compass Dogma
A thumb compass is just as accurate as a baseplate compass. Use it properly and it is quicker too. If the Yorkshire junior squad is frowning upon thumb compasses it says more about the narrow mindedness of coaches rather than any technical point.
- Big Jon
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Re: Compass Dogma
I've taught hundreds of kids to orienteer in Scandinavian terrain, and I never let them use a compass. The use of a compass is over-rated, the quickest and most accurate way to orienteer is to read the map and find the best lines in the terrain. I never train with a compass, and in a race just wrap one round my wrist. In my opinion British orienteers (junior + senior) would orienteer a lot better if they weren't so reliant on their compasses and focused on the map to find the best lines in the terrain.
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Re: Compass Dogma
But it's easy to find a good line in terrain when there's plenty of Swedish detail to read as you move along it. It's less easy to find a good line diagonally across a slope to a pit in the Forest of Dean, or to a Tripod in a flat block of forest in the North York Moors.
I was always taught that taking bearings with a baseplate was a valuable tool, and indeed it was as a young junior. By the time I got to coaching myself, on a tour to Uppsala, I realised I was naturally using the baseplate as a thumb compass and switched when I came home. Haven't taken a bearing in about 7 years now.
I think we should be teaching all juniors good compass skills. But for those who've already decided bearings are not for them, there should definitely be no pressure to keep them. They will all develop their own style with time, and coaches are there to support that.
I was always taught that taking bearings with a baseplate was a valuable tool, and indeed it was as a young junior. By the time I got to coaching myself, on a tour to Uppsala, I realised I was naturally using the baseplate as a thumb compass and switched when I came home. Haven't taken a bearing in about 7 years now.
I think we should be teaching all juniors good compass skills. But for those who've already decided bearings are not for them, there should definitely be no pressure to keep them. They will all develop their own style with time, and coaches are there to support that.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Re: Compass Dogma
Have just seen this post re. the Yorkshire Squad and use of compasses. Its a pity NeilM40 from Leeds didn't approach Nev or I to discuss our approach to the use of a compass before posting. At no time since I have been involved with the Squad (since 1996) has there been a preference for either baseplate or thumb compass. We work with whatever the athlete turns up with and prefers, however we do encourage the juniors to try both to see which suits their style of orienteering best.
- Tony
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Re: Compass Dogma
Sorry Tony (and Nev), it seems I must have misunderstood.
When I was a junior I was strongly encouraged (by some coaches) to use a proper bearing, and I had to positively resist some attempts to get me to convert. I was a bit dismayed to find coaches were still taking the same attitude, except from your post I can see that you aren't. I guess I was a bit too keen to jump to conclusions so that I could take up the argument I was having 25 years ago. At my age I ought to know better.
When I was a junior I was strongly encouraged (by some coaches) to use a proper bearing, and I had to positively resist some attempts to get me to convert. I was a bit dismayed to find coaches were still taking the same attitude, except from your post I can see that you aren't. I guess I was a bit too keen to jump to conclusions so that I could take up the argument I was having 25 years ago. At my age I ought to know better.
- Neil M40
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Re: Compass Dogma
Compass fell apart early on in Nov classic this year, and had no problem running at normal speed. Actually read the map more carefully as no compass to rely on.
wouldn't fancy no compass on merthyr common though.
wouldn't fancy no compass on merthyr common though.
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